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Announcer:	Today on Family Talk.
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<p><span style="font-size: 16px;">
Dr. Dobson:	Well, hello everyone. This is James Dobson and you're listening to Family Talk, which is a radio ministry supported by listeners like you. You are in for a real treat today because I'm joined by my very good friend. Now that's a phrase that's often used, but in this case it's for real. I'm talking about Dr. Dennis Swanberg. I'm sure many people in the listening audience have lit up just a little bit hearing his name because you've followed him and enjoyed his work for years. I've known him for 29 years and in fact, Dennis, I think that first time I ever heard your name, somebody who had given me a cassette recording of one of your very, very funny speeches.
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Dr. Dobson:	I tell you, I could hardly see where I was driving because I was laughing and the tears were in my eyes. That was in Pomona, California, where Focus on the Family was, where I was then. As I drove along I just said, "Our audience needs to hear this guy." I didn't know you, but I loved what you did and talked about your family and everything. I put that on the air and everything lit up.
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Dennis Swanberg:	Man it was something, wasn't it? Oh my goodness.
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Dr. Dobson:	It really was an unbelievable experience. And then let's see if you remember this. Shirley and I were in Sarasota, Florida.
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Dennis Swanberg:	Sarasota, Florida.
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Dr. Dobson:	It was a Sunday morning and we went to a Baptist church there and you were the primary speaker that day.
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Dennis Swanberg:	There I was. I was up on the platform and I looked out and I see Dr. Dobson and Ms. Shirley and I went, "Lord, help me be real good." Or, "Lord, take the shallow stuff and make them think it's something." Or, "Let me be like a Billy Graham or something."
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Dr. Dobson:	And we loved it.
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Dennis Swanberg:	I mean, I'm up there and oh. And afterwards I'm down at the pulpit ready to shake some hands, but nobody's shaking my hand, they're shaking Jim and Shirley Dobson's hands in the back. Finally when they finished they came up and gave me a hug and Doc, you said, "I want everything you've got." I hated to tell him, "That's the only cassette tape I've got."
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Dr. Dobson:	It turned out not to be.
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Dennis Swanberg:	It turned ... No, it-
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Dr. Dobson:	You did very many recordings and we had them.
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Dennis Swanberg:	And you guys encouraged me. You encouraged me.
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Dr. Dobson:	I believe in you, Dennis.
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Dennis Swanberg:	You did. I asked you one time, I said, "Doc, why have you been so good to me?" And he said, "Well, I like opening up the door for somebody in a big way." And I went, "Man, you opened up the door, the garage door." It was just an unbelievable blessing.
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Dr. Dobson:	Well, it was really selfish because I was sharing you and people loved me for it.
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Dennis Swanberg:	Man, you blessed me.
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Dr. Dobson:	You are a Baptist minister. You have a Doctorate in ministry from Dallas-
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Dennis Swanberg:	I sure do. Southwestern Seminary. Went to Baylor, majored in Greek and religion and here I've got all these degrees. I got the full 30 hours of Greek and 30 hours of religion, then I got my masters, my Doctorate, and I'm going, "Now here I am out here making people laugh a little bit."
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Dr. Dobson:	Yeah.
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Dennis Swanberg:	But you know what? I tell my boys and my loved ones, "You better be standing on the solid rock of Jesus Christ, no matter what you do." If you're a singer, engineer, teacher, humorist, that's important. I'm thankful for my education.
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Dr. Dobson:	Dennis, when did you first discover that you could make people laugh?
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Dennis Swanberg:	I had fun at home, I had fun at school, but in high school we had won third state championship, John H. Reagan High School, Austin, Texas. We beat Odessa Permian, the Friday night lights.
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Dr. Dobson:	In what?
</span></p>
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Dennis Swanberg:	In football.
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Dr. Dobson:	Football.
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Dennis Swanberg:	It was our third state championship, and my coach asked me to come up and speak at the banquet. It was a little nervy because they were going to have a politician speak that was under indictment, but they didn't want to un-invite him because of politics. The mamas were upset, "I can't believe we're having this speaker." Coach didn't want to rescind and say, "You're not coming to speak." He was there and so ... I think my coach was pretty smart, he said, "You know I'm going to add a little humor." When he was introducing all of us he came to me and he said, "Dennis Swanberg here, he's a center and defensive end. Dennis does impersonations. Dennis, could you come up here when I finish introducing everybody and do a few for us?" I hopped up there.
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Dr. Dobson:	Spontaneous.
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Dennis Swanberg:	Spontaneous. Got behind that microphone and I did Howard Cosell, "No doubt about it. Monday Night Football. Lenny Dawson backed a pass. I did Muhammad Ali, "I'm the greatest." I did Barney Fife, "Anybody see Thelma Lou?" I hadn't done Billy Graham at that time, but I was doing all these and it was like people just needed an excuse to laugh. It broke the ice and people just lost it. All of a sudden at that time the way they responded I thought, "I can make people laugh." I didn't understand it.
</span></p>
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Dr. Dobson:	What an epiphany. Your life changed.
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Dennis Swanberg:	I didn't grasp about being a speaker. The next day in the Austin American Statesman newspaper in big, bold letters it said, "Swanberg steals the show."
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Dr. Dobson:	No kidding.
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Dennis Swanberg:	And that I upped the politician, who was a big politician in Texas, and I knew I had something. Shortly after that, March 15, 1971, I gave my life to Christ on a Monday night, I was 17. All of a sudden I had these evangelical preachers coming up to me going, "Hey, why don't you come speak to our youth, you can do these voices." I went, "Is that appropriate in a church? Is it okay to be funny at church, or humorous?" They went, "Oh yeah. And then you could end up talking about being an imitator of Christ." I went, "Is that in there somewhere?"
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Dennis Swanberg:	That's how it got started and one thing led to another. Ended up pastoring in the local church 22 years and then in 1995 I resigned from First Baptist Church West Monroe, Louisiana, I love those people, to do this full-time. Well Doc, that was 25 years ago. Here's an interesting story. When I resigned, the next day y'all had replayed one of my cassette tapes. It was like a Billy Graham movie and I just couldn't believe it. I've had a great life, the Lord has blessed me.
</span></p>
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Dr. Dobson:	I've got to ask you about that because the standard understanding, or maybe a cliche about comedians, is that they came out of pain.
</span></p>
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Dennis Swanberg:	Yeah.
</span></p>
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Dr. Dobson:	In fact, let me tell you, Jonathan Winters, one of the funniest man that ever lived was talking candidly on television one time and I heard him. He talked about the fact that he lost his father. His dad ran off when he was just a little kid and the kids teased him because he didn't have a dad. In those days everybody had a dad.
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Dennis Swanberg:	Exactly.
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Dr. Dobson:	They would make fun of him and he would beat them up, he would fight. When they weren't watching he would go behind a tree someplace and cry. He said, "All my humor is an expression of pain." I've heard many people say that. Apparently that is not true of you.
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Dennis Swanberg:	It's true in the sense that my pain wasn't because of my parents. I had great parents, great grandparents, family. I was a little bit of the ADD and we didn't know about ADD back then and so I wondered about myself. I wondered if I was smart or not smart, I didn't do well on tests. How I would cover for that would be with my humor. But here's the deal, Doc.
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Dr. Dobson:	It's the same thing, really.
</span></p>
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Dennis Swanberg:	Yeah, it's the same thing. But now, after ... My boys graduated from college, but after they graduated from college, no one's exempt from pain and Laurie and I, we experienced some pain and some hurt. Sometimes it comes early in the day, sometimes pain comes late in the evening, but we experience some pain.
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Dr. Dobson:	I don't know anybody that doesn't experience pain.
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Dennis Swanberg:	Everybody does, but not everybody always wants to talk about it. When I'd go out and speak and entertain, I'd preach and I'd entertain, and I believe I was effective, I care for people. But after I experienced and went through, Laurie and I did, with some bumps in the road with our boys, all of a sudden I had a new sensitivity to people that hurt. Because I remember I'd be out there at Dana Point speaking at one of those big hotels for a big faith-based group to raise money. They didn't know it, but I knew it, that my youngest son Dusty was just down the road in San Clemente in a rehab, and yet I couldn't go see him.
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Dr. Dobson:	He was drinking.
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Dennis Swanberg:	Yeah. I'd have to be up on that stage and laughing, but deep down in my heart I love my Dusty and boy, that was tough. I can flash back to you guys. It's in our new book called No More Secrets.
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Dr. Dobson:	We're going to talk about that.
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<span style="font-size: 16px;">
</span>
<p><span style="font-size: 16px;">
Dennis Swanberg:	We're very open about it. But I remember is after Christmas in 2008 and Laurie and I and Chad, we came back to Louisiana to Monroe, but Dusty was going to go from Fort Worth down to Austin to see his cousins. Later that night we're trying to text him but he doesn't respond, we can't find him. It's a tough thing when you have your nieces and nephews and everybody and you're just calling police stations and sheriff's departments trying to find your son. My niece, she found him in Georgetown, Texas, he was in jail.
</span></p>
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<p><span style="font-size: 16px;">
Dennis Swanberg:	First of all, Laurie and I, we looked at each other at one in the morning and you know that with your kids you look at each other and that ache in your stomach, that hollowness and like, "What did we do wrong?" I'm supposed to be America's minister of encouragement and I'm thinking, "Well I guess I didn't encourage my own son." So Chad and I, we got in the car and we drove all through the night. We got down there about 7:30 in the morning. I went in and paid his bail. Walked outside and God said to my heart, "If you love him, leave him." I went back inside. I've never heard God speak in an audible voice except through my wife Laurie, my honey love, my sugar babe. But I went back in and I said, "Will y'all just keep him? I don't want him. I want y'all just to keep him."
</span></p>
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<p><span style="font-size: 16px;">
Dennis Swanberg:	Well, long story short, the rest of it's in the book, but they kept him. I come outside. Chad said, "When's Dusty getting out?" I said, "He's not. God told me if I love him, I needed to leave him this time." We got in the car and we're driving all the way back to Monroe, Louisiana. Laurie calls me on the phone and says, "Do you have Dusty? You got Dusty?" I said, "Baby, I left him." "You left him?" I said, "Yes. God told me if I loved him I needed to leave him so I left him." She said, "Okay."
</span></p>
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<p><span style="font-size: 16px;">
Dennis Swanberg:	I got home and he called, collect call from jail. "When are you going to come get me?" I said, "When God tells me to come get you I'll come get you, but Dustin I left you there because He told me if I loved you I needed to leave you, so I'm leaving you." The one verse that I knew in my heart was out of Joshua 1:9 and out of Hebrews, "I will will never leave you nor forsake you."
</span></p>
<span style="font-size: 16px;">
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<p><span style="font-size: 16px;">
Dennis Swanberg:	When I was at Baylor majoring in Greek, I'm not a scholar but sometimes we'd translate that in the voice of old Billy Graham like, "I'll never leave you, nor forsake you." But actually, if you translate those five negatives in that verse, it really is translated, "I'll never, never, no never, leave you nor forsake you." That's a forever never. I knew that my Lord was with him. All he had was a Gideon's new testament.
</span></p>
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<p><span style="font-size: 16px;">
Dr. Dobson:	Let me give you another scripture that's maybe. The story of the prodigal son-
</span></p>
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<p><span style="font-size: 16px;">
Dennis Swanberg:	Exactly.
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<p><span style="font-size: 16px;">
Dr. Dobson:	Jumps out at us here because he was a wealthy farmer representing God Himself who owns everything, and he could have gone and rescued his son who was eating with the pigs and was destitute and with prostitutes and every evil thing. He could have sent his servants to find him and bring him back, but he did not. In fact the scripture, I think it's the Living Bible, says, "And no one gave him anything." When he came to his senses, those two things are back-to-back.
</span></p>
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<p><span style="font-size: 16px;">
Dennis Swanberg:	Huge.
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<p><span style="font-size: 16px;">
Dr. Dobson:	No one bailed him out, and then he came to his senses. You apparently had a similar situation.
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<p><span style="font-size: 16px;">
Dennis Swanberg:	Yeah, that's right. He probably should have been in a hospital, but I didn't know anything about detox. But after nine days I went and got him, put him on a plane, took him to the rehab. About two or three days later up there he said he came to the place in his life he said, "I am helpless. I need you, Lord." Ever since then, Dustin has been making changes. We all fall and fail and falter. 80% of people relapse, addicts. Well, we all relapse from something. But now Dustin is married. We have a little grand baby, Andrew James Floyd Swanberg, he put Floyd in there for my daddy, Floyd Leon. I thought, "Good night, will all that fit on a birth certificate?" But he's the best little fellow.
</span></p>
<span style="font-size: 16px;">
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<p><span style="font-size: 16px;">
Dennis Swanberg:	They're going to have another child in April. Giver, thoughtful, spiritual. Worked at Celebrate Recovery at First Baptist Dallas for a year and now he serves our government in lot of ways I can't say. But I'll say this, he's a light. He shares the light of Christ with his life. He does interventions. He goes to meetings and helps people. When people that I know call and they're hurting, they want to call and talk to Dustin. Or likewise, my oldest son, Chad. Both of them have been in recovery and it's ... My oldest son, he's gone through some tough times. And I'm so proud of Chad, he wrote the epilogue of this book. Can I just read a little bit?
</span></p>
<span style="font-size: 16px;">
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<p><span style="font-size: 16px;">
Dennis Swanberg:	Chad's a good writer. He said, "One of my greatest secrets was my own deception. Although I was very good at deceiving those around me, I was even better at fooling myself. I kept secrets from myself. I avoided responsibility by playing the victim, blaming, justifying, rationalizing so that I didn't have to take credit or accountability for my part in my problems. The actions, behaviors, and choices that I made, however, gave me the life that I had, yet I was still unwilling to pull the curtain back on that secret. Never would I be willing to confess that I was the reason for my difficulties or responsible for my struggles. I could not admit the secret truth that the answer to my problem stared at me in the mirror every morning. Every secret that I kept had to be protected."
</span></p>
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<p><span style="font-size: 16px;">
Dennis Swanberg:	That's just a little bit of what he says, but you feel his heart. But I've learned, Doc, I don't have to shame anybody, they feel plenty of shame already. I need to encourage them. I don't need to enable them, but I've got to encourage them all the same.
</span></p>
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<p><span style="font-size: 16px;">
Dr. Dobson:	Yeah. And they need encouragement. I've found that a good, godly, Christian parents suffer more when their kids run into trouble than those who have no faith. Isn't that amazing?
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<p><span style="font-size: 16px;">
Dennis Swanberg:	It is.
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<p><span style="font-size: 16px;">
Dr. Dobson:	It's even more painful to be a believer in a moment like this because the scriptures in some interpretation blame you, the parents, for it. But the truth of the matter is, we all have a free will and your kids can choose. After all, God had a little trouble with Adam and Eve and He was the perfect father and they went wrong.
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Dennis Swanberg:	Exactly. I tell people that.
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<p><span style="font-size: 16px;">
Dr. Dobson:	You can't afford to blame yourself for what your kids do. Everybody makes mistakes as parents. We all look back on what we did and wish we could do it over because none of us is perfect and we don't have perfect kids.
</span></p>
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<p><span style="font-size: 16px;">
Dennis Swanberg:	I told Laurie, I said, "I may have gotten this from Doc and Ms. Shirley, but Adam and Eve, they had a perfect father, they had a perfect world, but they had a mind of their own and our kids have a mind of their own and we have a mind of our own. We're all in this together." Sometimes I have had to admit that too often my thought has been, "As long as your sin is bigger than mine, I'm fine." But isn't that funny how we are? "I didn't do this or I didn't do this. Well I didn't do that so I feel pretty good about myself."
</span></p>
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<p><span style="font-size: 16px;">
Dennis Swanberg:	I remember one time Dusty came home in 2012, so he had been sober a good while. I always wanted to go to one of those meetings, the AA meetings. My wife Laurie, my honey love, she said, "You don't go unless he invites you, okay? You just wait. You're just always so bold. You just wait and let him ask you." Well, finally one Saturday he said, "Dad, you want to go with me?" So I went with him. We went over there near ULM campus there in Monroe and man, there was a hundred people in there. Well, I've been out of the pastor ... I left First Baptist, West Monroe in 1995, I'd been out 17 years. We still lived there in West Monroe, so I know everybody. I walk in there Doc, I see some old church members. I had my coffee in my hand, I'm going, "Hey!" I'm waving, "Hey! Hey!" There's another, "Oh, hey! How are you doing?" And then I saw the guy that sold me my truck and I'm thinking, "Lord, good night. I don't know how this thing operates but I hope they'll come by where I can introduce myself and say, 'I'm Dennis Swanberg. I'm fine, I'm with my son. He's the one with the problem.'"
</span></p>
<span style="font-size: 16px;">
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<p><span style="font-size: 16px;">
Dennis Swanberg:	But when I did that, the Lord Jesus said to me, "You self-righteous preacher! Who do you think you are? Now sit down and drink your coffee and learn something." Well that didn't phase me. I thought, "I'm America's minister of encouragement. I've got to keep clean. I can't be associated ... What's this going to do to me? People are going to walk out and say, 'We saw Dr. Swanberg at an AA meeting.'"
</span></p>
<span style="font-size: 16px;">
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<p><span style="font-size: 16px;">
Dennis Swanberg:	Then the Lord said, "It's AA Swan, it's anonymous." I said, "Well, I know it's anonymous but there are some Baptists in here and you know they're going to tell somebody." And He said, "Drink your coffee, eat your doughnut and listen and maybe you'll learn something." What I learned that day in 2012 more clearly was, we're all recovering from something. We all need a savior. I need to encourage my boys. I need to encourage others. I hurt with them. I hurt. We all hurt and have pain. How much more so our Heavenly Father? How did he feel? Adam and Eve had two boys and one of them killed the other one. You would be tempted to say, "God, you ain't got a good track record right now."
</span></p>
<span style="font-size: 16px;">
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<p><span style="font-size: 16px;">
Dennis Swanberg:	But I'll tell you this, what I think. He sure knows how we feel as parents, doesn't he? He knew he loved them so much, he made them some clothes, which took a sacrifice. He clothed them. He covered them with His love. I said in my book, "Sometimes we're pretty good at pointing sin out, but sometimes I'm not as good about helping them confess it." If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins. It's not that I have to ... Everybody has to be as bold as Dennis Swanberg today on the radio, tell the whole world. You tell the Lord and a significant somebody, because if not it's like a beach ball underneath the water, if you're not careful it's going to come up and pop you in the face. Why not let the air out of it?
</span></p>
<span style="font-size: 16px;">
</span>
<p><span style="font-size: 16px;">
Dr. Dobson:	Dennis, you and I today are talking to some very specific people. I can feel their pain coming back through these microphones.
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<p><span style="font-size: 16px;">
Dennis Swanberg:	I do too.
</span></p>
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<p><span style="font-size: 16px;">
Dr. Dobson:	Because they gave everything they had to their kids and they turned out wrong, some of them are in prison and worse. They look at that scripture, the Proverb that says, "Train up a child in the way he should go and when he's old he will not depart from it." That sounds a whole lot like parental guilt.
</span></p>
<span style="font-size: 16px;">
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<p><span style="font-size: 16px;">
Dennis Swanberg:	Yeah. Oh, yes.
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</span>
<p><span style="font-size: 16px;">
Dr. Dobson:	That if you would have done it right, he would have turned out right. But that is not a promise of God, that is a probability.
</span></p>
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<p><span style="font-size: 16px;">
Dennis Swanberg:	Yes.
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<p><span style="font-size: 16px;">
Dr. Dobson:	Proverbs are not promises. There are all kinds of Proverbs that you say, "Well, I didn't get wealthy when I did everything right."
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<p><span style="font-size: 16px;">
Dennis Swanberg:	Right.
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<p><span style="font-size: 16px;">
Dr. Dobson:	The Proverbs are not promises, they're probabilities. I think that scripture has been misinterpreted to turn around and bite good, godly people who did the best they could and it wasn't good enough.
</span></p>
<span style="font-size: 16px;">
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<p><span style="font-size: 16px;">
Dennis Swanberg:	That's right.
</span></p>
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<p><span style="font-size: 16px;">
Dr. Dobson:	We need to put an arm around them today and say, "You give that to the Lord."
</span></p>
<span style="font-size: 16px;">
</span>
<p><span style="font-size: 16px;">
Dennis Swanberg:	Exactly. And you know what, you can't fix it. You can pray for them, you can encourage them, but you can't fix it. But they have to find the answer. You know what both my boys tell me all the time? They say, "Dad, you and mom are great parents." Well Laurie and I know we failed here, we failed there, we failed here, we failed there. But isn't that something? They think we're the greatest. But I'm going to tell you what, there's a time when you need to have a catharsis. You've got to have an emptying of yourself and a cleansing of yourself so that you can be free. When my boys look at me in the face and say, "Dad, you know what our real problem is?" The addict. "You know what the real problem is for us? Selfishness. We are some of the most selfish people in the whole wide world." It hit a note with me because I'm selfish too. We're all selfish. But there is an answer to that selfishness.
</span></p>
<span style="font-size: 16px;">
</span>
<p><span style="font-size: 16px;">
Dr. Dobson:	Dennis, we're really just getting started on the theme of this book, No More Secrets. You have flown out here from Dallas, Texas to be with us today and I want you to sit right where you are and I want to continue this conversation, we'll let our listeners hear it tomorrow, the next time. But I love you, brother. I appreciate you. You want other people to benefit from what you have learned in letting go of secrets and sharing them with others.
</span></p>
<span style="font-size: 16px;">
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<p><span style="font-size: 16px;">
Dennis Swanberg:	Amen.
</span></p>
<span style="font-size: 16px;">
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<p><span style="font-size: 16px;">
Dr. Dobson:	We're going to pick that up next time. We're going to start by talking about your grandparents, who have learned some things about this issue.
</span></p>
<span style="font-size: 16px;">
</span>
<p><span style="font-size: 16px;">
Dennis Swanberg:	Okay.
</span></p>
<span style="font-size: 16px;">
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<p><span style="font-size: 16px;">
Dr. Dobson:	Dennis, thanks for being with us.
</span></p>
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<p><span style="font-size: 16px;">
Dennis Swanberg:	Thank you.
</span></p>
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<p><span style="font-size: 16px;">
Dr. Dobson:	It's always a pleasure to work with you. We'll pick it up right here next time.
</span></p>
<span style="font-size: 16px;">
</span>
<p><span style="font-size: 16px;">
Dennis Swanberg:	Good deal.
</span></p>
<span style="font-size: 16px;">
</span>
<p><span style="font-size: 16px;">
Roger Marsh:	You have been listening to Part One of Dr. Dobson's conversation with comedian and pastor Dr. Dennis Swanberg here on Family Talk. I'm Roger Marsh and I pray that you have been touched by Dennis's testimony. All of us are sometimes haunted by those mistakes from our past or even those acts of evil conducted against us. However, isn't it good to know that Jesus can and will forgive us and redeem us from any situation in our past for His ultimate glory.
</span></p>
<span style="font-size: 16px;">
</span>
<p><span style="font-size: 16px;">
Roger Marsh:	You can learn more about Dennis Swanberg's story when you read his book called No More Secrets. We have a link on our broadcast page at drjamesdobson.org that has more information on how you can order a copy of that book. There you'll also find information about Dennis Swanberg's ministry and his other popular works as well. You'll find all that information and more at drjamesdobson.org and then click onto the broadcast page.
</span></p>
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<p><span style="font-size: 16px;">
Roger Marsh:	Now while you're on our site, be sure you also click onto our insightful blog tab. We have numerous entries there from Dr. Dobson, Dr. Tim Clinton, and several of our past radio guests as well. Our bloggers focus on current and relatable issues like parenting, marriage, faith and culture. Our goal here at Family Talk is to support you in any area that you might be struggling with, so take some time and read through some of our uplifting blogs when you go to drjamesdobson.org.
</span></p>
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<p><span style="font-size: 16px;">
Roger Marsh:	Finally, did you know that Dr. Dobson's insightful content can be found online? That's right. When you go to the Dobson digital library at dobsonlibrary.com, you'll find that we have cataloged all of Dr. Dobson's articles, blogs, newsletters, and past radio programs as resources for you. Stop looking elsewhere for practical tools and insights to help your family, just go to dobsonlibrary.com and take advantage of Dr. Dobson's years of knowledge. That's dobsonlibrary.com.
</span></p>
<span style="font-size: 16px;">
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<p><span style="font-size: 16px;">
Roger Marsh:	Tune in again tomorrow for the conclusion of Dr. Dobson's recent interview with author and comedian Dr. Dennis Swanberg. They'll continue discussing the impacts of secrets by sharing stories from their own lives. Dennis will also emphasize the importance of confession and how Christ is our hope in times of need. Don't miss this entire conversation coming up next time right here on Family Talk.
</span></p>
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<p><span style="font-size: 16px;">
Announcer:	This has been a presentation of the Dr. James Dobson Family Institute.
</span></p>
<span style="font-size: 16px;">
</span>
<p><span style="font-size: 16px;">
Dr. Tim Clinton:	Hi, everyone. This is Dr. Tim Clinton, executive director of the James Dobson Family Institute. Our ministry here exists to honor the Lord through ministering to today's families and marriages all over the world. We couldn't accomplish that, however, without your support. As the JDFI, the James Dobson Family Institute, continues to grow, we need your help. Visit us, will you do that, at drjamesdobson.org, or call us toll free at (877) 732-6825. Stand with us and fight for righteousness in culture.
</span></p>"
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Announcer:	Today on Family Talk.
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<p>
Roger Marsh:	The final chapters of the book of Genesis follow the story of Joseph. This man endured tremendous hardship due to his conniving and hate-filled brothers. Towards the end of his life, Joseph's brothers feared that he would enact vengeance on them because of their misdeeds. However, his response was the exact opposite. In Genesis 50:20 Joseph says, "You intended to harm me, but God intended it for good. Friend, isn't it good to know that we don't have to feel shame or guilt from a past mistake or severe injustice acted out against us? God is still in control regardless of our circumstances, and He can fully redeem our fallenness for his praise."
</p>
<p>
Roger Marsh:	That concept is where we're going today as we wrap up Dr. Dobson's conversation with Dennis Swanberg. Hello everyone. I'm Roger Marsh and you're listening to Dr. James Dobson's Family Talk. This radio ministry is completely supported by generous listeners just like you. In just a moment, Dr. Dennis Swanberg will continue talking about his new book, No More Secrets. Last time he talked about his son's challenging battle with alcoholism. Dennis admitted that it was difficult to share this struggle with others because of what they might say. Well, today he and Dr. Dobson will unpack the importance of confession and trusting others with our hurts.
</p>
<p>
Roger Marsh:	Now, before we hear that discussion, let me tell you more about our guest. Dr. Dennis Swanberg is a popular Christian comedian, a motivational speaker, an ordained minister and an author. He travels the country speaking to hundreds of thousands of people every year. Dr. Swanberg holds a Masters in Divinity and Doctorate in Ministry from Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary. He also hosts two successful TV programs called Swan's Place and The Dennis Swanberg Show. Dennis is one of our closest friends who has appeared on our program numerous times. As we begin, Dennis Swanberg will share how his mother-in-law suffered with a painful secret for decades. Let's listen now as he recalls that devastating story on this edition of Family Talk.
</p>
<p>
Dennis Swanberg:	One Christmas some years ago, a little bit before 2012, we were all at this lake place, our whole families, and one day her mom comes up to me on a little path outside of a cottage. I get up early. I'm having my coffee, well, there's Kathy. And so Kathy comes up to me and Kathy said, "Dennis, I want to talk to you. I've never told anybody this, but I feel like I need to tell you. I was raised in Mississippi and my mother died when I was five. I was the last of 13 children. My dad was older when I was born and he was soon out of the question. I was desperate and I married a man and was pregnant. And then he didn't want me and they didn't want the baby. So when I went to one of my older brothers, he gave me a $50 bill and said, "Go find yourself a doctor and fix this thing.""
</p>
<p>
Dennis Swanberg:	She said, "When I was 17 years old, I had an abortion."
</p>
<p>
Dr. Dobson:	That was illegal at that time.
</p>
<p>
Dennis Swanberg:	Yeah. And I'm just not ready for that. And here I've been married to her daughter for years and years and years and I said, "Sometimes you got to stop and say, "Lord, help me." Because the next few words I say, they will remember forever." We need to remember that with our kids, our grandkids, our loved ones, our friends. So I paused and I took a breath, because I'm always such a talker. And I said, Kathy, "I love you more now than I've ever loved you before. And we love you. You're a good woman, you're a good lady, you're a good wife, you're a good mother." But some days after that that she had just a mental breakdown and was never the same after that.
</p>
<p>
Dennis Swanberg:	In the book, I share that at the very end when she was just lingering there for days and days and no one knew why she was lingering and the family all looked at me and said, "You need to go and talk to my mom." So I went inside, just me and Kathy, a very private place and I only share this because Laurie's entire family encouraged me to, but at that time I was able to communicate basically. I won't share everything, but I said, "You've been good to us. We love you. You're a good godly woman and Jesus is ready for you in heaven and your child is waiting on you, ready to hug you and he or she's going to tell you all that they've been doing in heaven, which is not a boring place so you can go if you want to go. We love you." So I went outside, I got the family, we came in, we all held hands around her and sang Amazing Grace and she went to be with Jesus. Never had an experience like that before.
</p>
<p>
Dennis Swanberg:	But I think Kathy wanted her story out there because I thought, man, if she had been to a place where someone could have sat down with her and said, Hey, I remember when I was 17 or if she could have been part of a ministry to help some young girl say, Hey, well, well let me tell you my story when I was 17, but no one wanted to tell secrets. Secrets make you sick. Silence is the enemy of healing. And that's what made her sick. And we loved her then and we still love her. And her husband George, he came out of the war, World War II and he married her and he knew and he loved her, had two girls and two boys and a great family. A great testimony.
</p>
<p>
Dennis Swanberg:	But I've thought about her sometimes when she held that secret in. What about when she's at the beauty shop and someone says at the beauty shop, how could anybody kill a baby? How could anybody abort a baby? What about when on church, on right to life Sunday, she just sits there. And I thought if she had just opened up and shared that, she could have a cathartic experience for sure, a cleansing and she could say, "Yes, that happened, but God is good and God loves us and God forgives us and God takes care of us."
</p>
<p>
Dr. Dobson:	I wonder if anybody ever told her that there's no sin that Jesus can't forget or cover-
</p>
<p>
Dennis Swanberg:	I'm sure she heard that from the pulpit. But I guess that's one she didn't want to tell. It's like my grandpa, he lost Swanberg when it came from Sweden. He was an orphan. He and his sister and came over on the Lusitania in 1912, he was 14, he lived with a rancher in Texas for 10 years to start a pay him back. He lost his arm when he was 49 in a cotton gin accident. So he farmed with one arm until he was 77. He just had a tough old life all the time. I used to say, "Grandpa, what happened back in Sweden when you were a child, with all this, your parents died or whatever?" And he would just say, "Why talk about something horrible?" I said, "Well, I just sort of want to know grandpa." Never would tell us.
</p>
<p>
Dennis Swanberg:	Well, after he passed, my older sister, she did research and we checked with folks in Sweden and the church there was in the habit of placing a mark by your name, your birth certificate if you are an illegitimate child. And he knew that and was ashamed of it. Now, doc, I don't know why people use that word. If you're here, you're legit. But he had to live with it and he never would tell us.
</p>
<p>
Dennis Swanberg:	But here's another thing. I've often thought, "Man, if grandpa Elif would have told me, I would just loved him more, I'd loved on him, he wouldn't have had to hold that in."
</p>
<p>
Dr. Dobson:	He never did reveal it?
</p>
<p>
Dennis Swanberg:	Never did tell us, never did reveal that. And we always wondered something happened back there. What happened? I've talked with friends and ministries about getting a hole in the heart when you're fatherless, when you don't have a dad or how it's like a hole in your heart. And hard to heal. My mom, Pauline Bernadine, she's 90, she's red bend. She said, "I've read the book two times, and I don't know if I had to tell everything. I said, "Well, mom." I said, "Why don't you start to share it all?" "I know, my Gosh."
</p>
<p>
Dennis Swanberg:	But here's the deal, doc. I have to realize in Lori and Chad and Dusty and Brittany and all of us, little LJ and our future grandkids is that there's more secrets today and more secrets tomorrow and just because I wrote a book Hold No More Secrets, doesn't mean all secrets are gone. Things happen. It's so good if we have someone to go to. I'm glad we can go to our Lord Jesus at any time, night or day. The Catholics have a little something on us about confession. We need to confess that our sins might be forgiven, that we may healed. We surely would tell the Lord, but when you have a confidant, someone who can keep their mouth shut at the right time, at the right place in your life, and you wonder, when do I tell it? God will give you the time. God will reveal to you.
</p>
<p>
Dennis Swanberg:	I had a dear friend put this in the book. I asked my friend this question, "What is the worst thing I could know about you?" That's pretty heavy, isn't it? What is the worst thing I can know about you? Let me tell you something. The Lord knows all about us and when you have our friend that you can up and confess and help and work through accountability, friend to pray with you, work with you to be released of all that stuff, I guarantee it, Satan wants to stink it up and he wants us to be down and he wants us to be useless, but we need to be liberated.
</p>
<p>
Dr. Dobson:	I only got your book today. You brought it with you. You didn't send me one so I could read it before you got here. But I wonder, a few also said in this book, share your secrets, but be careful who you share them with.
</p>
<p>
Dennis Swanberg:	Exactly.
</p>
<p>
Dr. Dobson:	You share them with someone who isn't mature enough to keep them quiet or to condemn you for it, when you've already confessed it to the Lord. You have to be really careful with that, and specially within a church setting.
</p>
<p>
Dennis Swanberg:	You have to real careful. You have to watch people. It takes time before you'll know. Like this friend of mine, when he asked that question, what's the worst thing in your life? He felt safe to tell him and that was the changing moment of his life that now his ministry is huge.
</p>
<p>
Dennis Swanberg:	But you have to have that confidentiality, that why-
</p>
<p>
Dr. Dobson:	Yeah, there it is. Because for some people I would say it's not of your business.
</p>
<p>
Dennis Swanberg:	Here's one, doc. Jesus had to be careful about even the inner circle of three and the disciples. But there was one guy, Lazarus, we don't have one word in the Bible from Lazarus. Couldn't get a word in edge wise between his two sisters. But, Bible says they all knew Jesus loved him. You know why I think he loved him? He could keep his mouth shut. When he was about to rise from the dead, he asked people to roll the stone. They had to do something, and when he came out, he asked them, "You take off those stinking dirty linens, carefully, be tender." Some traditions say that Lazarus lived another 30 years. The Bible says many people came to Jesus because of Lazarus. I think Lazarus may have been his best friend.
</p>
<p>
Dennis Swanberg:	And I think there was probably a day when Lazarus looked at Martha. She's probably still alive and sort of bossy. He says, "Martha, I'm about to go. Get out the grave clothes." And she did. And then she probably looked at him and she said, "Well, here they are, and I've washed them a hundred times, but they still stink death." "Well, that's all right. Put them on. And he had to put them on because he did die." Here's the difference, and here's the hope for all of us. When Jesus was resurrected, he took his grave clothes and he folded them neatly and he never ever put them on again. He's our hope. He's the answer. We go boldly to his throne of grace to find help in time of need.
</p>
<p>
Dennis Swanberg:	And you're never more like Jesus, I think, and like God than when you care and you're loving and you're confidential and you can listen to someone share their heart. My friend, if you can't keep your mouth shut, I feel sorry for you. Cleanse yourself today. Ask forgiveness for today and be a friend and be confidential. We have to be careful, doc. Like you said, I don't want to cast my pearls before swine and have them trampled over. I have trusted friends and I have some I'm their trusted friend, but if I ever give that up, woe is me!
</p>
<p>
Dennis Swanberg:	We have that in the Bible. No more secrets. You got to be careful who you talk to.
</p>
<p>
Dr. Dobson:	And the ultimate source is Jesus.
</p>
<p>
Dennis Swanberg:	Oh yes.
</p>
<p>
Dr. Dobson:	Remember an old him that says there is no other trusted friend or brother. Tell it to Jesus alone. You remember that song?
</p>
<p>
Dennis Swanberg:	That is an awesome, awesome song.
</p>
<p>
Dennis Swanberg:	Here's one I put in the book because I loved it so much. I'm a, I'm a get it out here so I'll make sure I get it. All right. Stuart Hamblen was a great cowboy and he was in a Billy Graham crusade. Can you imagine what that must, in Los Angeles? John Wayne saw him at a party and he said, "Listen, Stuart, heard you went to that Billy Graham meeting." And Stuart Hamblen answered John Wayne and said, "Well, Duke is no secret what God can do."
</p>
<p>
Dr. Dobson:	There was.
</p>
<p>
Dennis Swanberg:	And then the Duke said, "Sounds like a song, Stuart." So Stuart Hamblen went home. He sat down in his kitchen next to his grandfather clock and he started writing. The chimes of time ring out the news, another day is through.
</p>
<p>
Dr. Dobson:	Someone slipped and fell.
</p>
<p>
Dennis Swanberg:	Someone slipped and fell.
</p>
<p>
Dr. Dobson:	Was that someone you.
</p>
<p>
Dennis Swanberg:	Was that someone you. You may have long for added strength, your courage to renew. Do not be disheartened. I have good news for you. It is no secret what God can do, what he's done for others. He'll do for you with arms wide open, he'll pardon you. It is no secret what God can do. There is no night for in his light. You never walk alone. Always feel at home, wherever you may go. There is no power can conquer you while God is on your side. Take him at his promise and don't run.
</p>
<p>
Dr. Dobson:	Run away.
</p>
<p>
Dennis Swanberg:	Don't hide. You know when we're at the National Day of Prayer, miss Shirley, she headed that thing up for 25 years and you were along her side. That's the quietest I think doc's ever been for 25 years at National Day of Prayer to miss Shirley, she's president.
</p>
<p>
Dennis Swanberg:	But when we were there with you all for that last year, my loved wife is so quiet, doesn't say much about nothing. She went up to you all and told you some of the stuff, and she came back over to me, and I said, "Did you tell them anything?" She said, "Yeah, I told them most everything." "Oh, you told Dr. Dobson, miss Shirley?"
</p>
<p>
Dr. Dobson:	She stood right face to face with me.
</p>
<p>
Dennis Swanberg:	And she said, "Yes, I did." And I went, "Okie-dokie. They'll flesh wonders. I wonder if he'll never let me speak for him again." Well, you know what? The proof's in the pudding. I'm here right now with you and Ms Shirley, thank you for being a confidant.
</p>
<p>
Dr. Dobson:	She gave you the title for this book, no more secrets.
</p>
<p>
Dennis Swanberg:	She gave the title. She said, "I'm tired of it. I'm tired of it with my family, your family, our family." I wanted to quit writing it. I was right in the middle of it. I said, "It's getting worse. I need to quit. I don't even need to write this book." She said, "You're writing it." And she said, "I'm tired of it. No more secrets." And when she said that, I said, "That's what we'll call the book baby. No more secrets."
</p>
<p>
Dr. Dobson:	You feared that I would think less of you if she told me your boys were having trouble? Satan was talking to you, man.
</p>
<p>
Dennis Swanberg:	I guess Satan... And sifting on me, but he wouldn't sift on her. She went right-
</p>
<p>
Dr. Dobson:	She's a very quiet lady. She's not the one to go talk about a lot of stuff. I was honored that she shared that with me.
</p>
<p>
Dennis Swanberg:	Tim Clinton is good friend of both of ours. Tim wrote the forward for my book and he said, "There's a little something." He said, "You need this book. It's time to get beyond the past, the pain and the secrets." And that's what we want for people. We want people to be liberated. I want them to laugh again. I want your loved ones to come to the reunion. I don't want them to have to dodge Christmas or Thanksgiving. I want them to come in with her head held high. I want them to have a good time. Though there might be someone in the crowd going, "They're not theirs. There's that boy who had a lot of trouble with him or her." Or "Oh, that's her daughter." Well, don't worry about them. You come in with your head held high because Jesus loves you.
</p>
<p>
Dr. Dobson:	A lot of those hidden secrets come out of childhood. It's a thing you're embarrassed about from your childhood and Shirley is sitting here right now, I hope she won't mind my saying this, but her father was an alcoholic and she was embarrassed by that and when somebody would bring her home. She would ask them to let her off a block away so people would not know where she lived. And when we first started going together, we'd gone together through the summer and sitting one night talking and she told me about her childhood and she thought I would walk away. She thought that I wouldn't care. And I said to her a little bit later, "That is my desire in life to make up to you for what you have lost and what you missed." And I've been working on that ever since. Instead of rejecting her, that made me love her and wanted to be tendered to her and to take care of her. And if you choose the right person, there is freedom in what you're talking about.
</p>
<p>
Dennis Swanberg:	There is. But I want you all to listen to me, men. Most of the time there's not anyone like your wife that has your back. And my wife has my back. And there's been times when I've opened up with her on my knees, tears rolling down my cheeks and she's been gracious to me. As gracious as she's been to her mother and gracious she's been to my boys.
</p>
<p>
Dr. Dobson:	She's a great lady. She really is.
</p>
<p>
Dennis Swanberg:	I just remind her, I said, "Baby, make sure you're gracious to yourself because you're been gracious to all of us."
</p>
<p>
Dr. Dobson:	I want you to describe for me in these closing minutes who you had in mind when you wrote this. Whenever I write a book, I've got somebody in mind. You had someone in mind here.
</p>
<p>
Dennis Swanberg:	My focus probably is that mom and dad, that grandma and grandpa, what did we do, what did we not do. For them to know and to understand that God loves them and he loves their kids. He loves their grandkids. I want them to know that it's okay.
</p>
<p>
Dr. Dobson:	They carried a burden all those years.
</p>
<p>
Dennis Swanberg:	They carried... And when I go and speak, I'll have people come at churches conferences and they'll come up. When all of a sudden I share a little bit about this, the room changes, the radio just changed. Just you open it up about Shirley's dad, the room in here. We changed, right there. And the room changes and I'll have people come up and go, my son's in prison or my son's on drugs or he's having alcohol. Or I'll have a guy come up and go 26 years, "I've been sober 26 years." I said, "Thank you buddy. Let me hug you." And give him a big hug. I had a guy come up to me one time, he had his 25 year sober coin. He said, "Look here, brother Dennis, I just got my 25 years sober coin." I go, "Oh man, that's awesome." He said, "Give it to your boys for me when you get home."
</p>
<p>
Dr. Dobson:	Really?
</p>
<p>
Dennis Swanberg:	His 25 year coin. "Tell them they can do it."
</p>
<p>
Dr. Dobson:	The other side to this story that you've written about, the side that you have written is to share your secrets with right person. The other side of that is the recipient who needs to give you love at a moment like that. It's really about love. It's a two sided story, isn't it?
</p>
<p>
Dennis Swanberg:	It's two-sided. And here's another thing. There's times when I'll share something like that and I'll may have some folks in ministry, other pastors started go, "Well, he was gone too much. He was on the road all the time. Should have stayed home more or whatever." You think I hadn't thought about that 10,000 times? But here's the deal. I won't say anything. Even if they write in my face about something, I go, "Well, I appreciate you sharing that." I've had, I can't tell you how many time, dozens of times I've had that a pastor call me a year later, two years later and said, "Brother Dennis, would you mind if my wife talks to your wife and could I talk to you? Our son's in trouble." I don't throw it back into his face. I go, "Sure, be glad to help you."
</p>
<p>
Dennis Swanberg:	Because the bottom line is we're all in this life together. It's just a matter of time when things happen. But praise the Lord, we have our heavenly father who's always there and it's not over. And my boys, I tell them all the time, you're in the locker room, second half ballgames or one of the third and fourth quarter and sometimes over time, here's a bottom line. God wants you to win. And that's what I want everyone to know. You can win. Mom, dad, you can win. Son, daughter, you can win. Mammo, pappo, spooks, pops, big mama, gaga, you can win. Pastor, you can win. A single person, you can win. Whatever your challenge is, you can win.
</p>
<p>
Dr. Dobson:	Let me leave our listeners with this thought. Jesus, who knows every one of your secrets, there's not a thing he does not know about you, you've committed them to him, but you still drag along that chain behind you because it's an embarrassment. But someday he's going to look at you and say, "Well done, thou good and faithful servant."
</p>
<p>
Dennis Swanberg:	Unbelievable.
</p>
<p>
Dr. Dobson:	This is going to be a marvelous moment. I think he's going to say that to you someday, Dennis.
</p>
<p>
Dennis Swanberg:	I hope so. And I hope folks will remember. David wasn't perfect. He messed up bad. But remember what God told Solomon? He didn't bring up Bathsheba. He said, "I want you to have the heart of your daddy."
</p>
<p>
Dr. Dobson:	Yeah.
</p>
<p>
Dennis Swanberg:	Wow. He knows the hearts of all of us. And so-
</p>
<p>
Dr. Dobson:	And he killed a man.
</p>
<p>
Dennis Swanberg:	He killed a man.
</p>
<p>
Dr. Dobson:	Took his wife.
</p>
<p>
Dennis Swanberg:	You're right. Took his army planned.
</p>
<p>
Dr. Dobson:	God forgave that. If he can forgive that, he can forgive you.
</p>
<p>
Dennis Swanberg:	I want you want you to have the heart of... Amen. I want you to have the heart of your father.
</p>
<p>
Dr. Dobson:	Dennis, I've loved having you here yesterday and today and the name of the book is No More Secrets by Dr. Dennis Swanberg. We've heard you speak many times. We've laughed with you. We've cried a little with you today. I love you like a brother.
</p>
<p>
Dennis Swanberg:	Thank you. I love you.
</p>
<p>
Dr. Dobson:	Thanks for being with us.
</p>
<p>
Roger Marsh:	Well, this is Roger Marsh again, and what a powerful program we've been listening to here on Family Talk. We cannot let our past define us or keep us from God's plan for our lives. Dr. Dobson's guest these past couple of days has been author and comedian, Dr. Dennis Swanberg. Learn more about his ministry and his brand new book, No More Secrets when you visit today's broadcast page at drjamesdobson.org.
</p>
<p>
Roger Marsh:	Did this two part conversation minister to you directly? If so, please go to our Facebook page and leave your thoughts or comments on today and yesterday's post. You'll find our profile by going to Facebook.com and then searching for Dr. James Dobson's Family Talk. We appreciate hearing how our programs are impacting you and your family. So going out to Family Talk's Facebook page and comment on either of the broadcast posts, centering on Dr. Dobson's interview with Dr. Dennis Swanberg. And please know we look forward to hearing from you.
</p>
<p>
Roger Marsh:	As we conclude this program today, I want to remind you that Family Talk is completely listener supported. We rely on God through your generous financial contributions to keep our broadcasts going. Learn more how you can partner with us by visiting our website at drjamesdobson.org. That's drjamesdobson.org. Or you can give a gift over the phone if you prefer. Call (877) 732-6825. That's (877) 732-6825.
</p>
<p>
Roger Marsh:	Thanks so much for your support and thanks so much for listening today. Be sure to join us again tomorrow for another edition of Dr. James Dobson's Family Talk. Have a blessed day.
</p>
<p>
Announcer:	This has been a presentation of the Dr. James Dobson Family Institute.
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ASSETS:<pre></pre>
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