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<br />
Roger Marsh: Hello everyone, this is Roger Marsh. Thank you for listening to this Family Talk broadcast. I'm excited you've joined us today, as we bring you one of our best broadcasts from 2018. Throughout the month of December, we'll be highlighting our most listened to shows, along with some of Dr. Dobson's hand-picked favorites. So, sit back, relax, and enjoy this popular program from this past year.<br />
<br />
Announcer: Today on Family Talk.&nbsp;<br />
<br />
James Dobson: Hello everyone and thank you for joining us for another addition of Family Talk. I'm Dr. James Dobson and whether you're listening to us on the radio or online, I am so happy that you tuned in today. We'd be kind of lonely here all by ourselves. On this broadcast, you'll hear the remainder of an interview between Dr. Tim Clinton and Dr. Sharon May. Yeah, she is Founder and President of the Safe Haven Relationship Counseling Center. Today, she and Dr. Clinton will unpack practical ways couples can break the negative cycle in their relationship. Here now is the conclusion of this insightful interview on Family Talk.&nbsp;<br />
<br />
Tim Clinton: Yesterday we talked a lot about &mdash; well this is very important. The path or the cycle of brokenness that's so easy to get caught up in. Often couples get caught up in it very unintentionally. They don't mean to. As a matter of fact, they are trying to turn the marriage around. Literally, in the name of love sometimes, they can lose it, love, in their relationship. And so, if you can see that, by the way, that's the first step, that's an important step in breaking free to a new life together.<br />
<br />
Sharon, before we jump in though, you, growing up through the years, spent a lot of time, you and your family, your wonderful dad, Dr. Archibald Hart, with the Dobson family. And I know they had such incredible influence in your life. Wanna share a little bit about Dr. Dobson and his wife Shirley and their families?<br />
<br />
Sharon May: They have been family friends for many years, and their work has been phenomenal over the past decades. My dad started with Dr. Dobson back in 1977 with the radio programs in Arcadia. And just watching over the past three decades the impact, worldwide, Dr. Dobson has had on the marriage and family culture. So many people &mdash; millions of people have dialed in daily, and still today say: "They helped &mdash; those programs helped me raise my children; helped me get through my hurting marriage."<br />
<br />
Tim Clinton: I'm thinking of works like Love Must be Tough and others that I spent a lot of time in grad school trying to memorize and learn but, a lot of what we're talking about today, those were the seeds, those were the timeless truths about getting to a new place together that can hopefully be the substance of where we're going today.<br />
<br />
So, let's go back, we're in trouble in our relationship, it's not fun, we don't like each other, all we do is fight, it's a sad place to be. And in the midst of that, and here's the guilt free drop to everybody, all marriages are going to go through times or periods of disaffection. Problems aren't really the issue. It's what you do with them or in the midst of them that will determine the future of your relationship, your love together. Sharon, we're in a mess, take us to step one. We need a healing path. How do we take a step toward each other?<br />
<br />
Sharon May: And the first step is to recognize that your marriage is on the edge of the cliff. It's being able to say, "We're disconnected." "We have parallel lives." "I'm quick to be irritated or frustrated." "I'm quick to defend." To be able to admit and to be able to look at your marriage and to review what's going on and to be able to get on your knees and say, "Lord, is this what you have for us? Is this Your best?"&nbsp;<br />
<br />
Tim Clinton: -Sharon, [crosstalk] I believe that most couples are unaware&mdash; of the crazy cycle that they're in.<br />
<br />
Sharon May: Yes.&nbsp;<br />
<br />
Tim Clinton: They're in a crazy cycle.<br />
<br />
Sharon May: Yes. It becomes their new normal. I fight, argue. I'm critical, you defend, you then just go off and watch T.V. and then I take care of the kids and then I tell you, "Oh! So, you're not going to be with me tonight," and you roll your eyes and you continue changing the channels. That that's our new normal- and its being able to slow down that the Lord called us to be each other safe haven. The Lord called us to love well and for us to be everything he has for us to be, and who have we become in our marriage. Have we become angry, bitter, resentful, withdrawing, shut down, closed off? That's not who God has for us to be.<br />
<br />
Tim Clinton: You used the word 'safety' a lot. I'm going to go to a counseling session or two I've had through the years. I remember this one lady in particular. She was so frustrated, so angry that she just sat in the office and cried, and said, "Tim, I don't know what to do and every time we're together again, he just like comes at me. I don't even want to go home. I don't want to be there." That word 'safety' becomes important. In our last broadcast, we talked a little about negative behavior being far more predictive in value than positive. In other words, when you say something to hurt or you do something like you joked about not taking the trash out. Most people would say, "That's stupid." No not really, because if you're wounded, "You didn't take the trash out, you know why? Because you wanted to be mean. You're being mean to me. That's all you are. You know I'm going to be late or it's raining out and you did that on purpose!" See, when you're really in trouble, those things, ones become threes, threes become fives, fives are tens. Am I right?&nbsp;<br />
<br />
Sharon May: Right.&nbsp;<br />
<br />
Tim Clinton: And so, talk to us again about calling a truce, I guess, recognizing the hate basically that's going on and how do we stop that? I mean we've got to stop the negative.<br />
<br />
&nbsp;Sharon May: Yes.&nbsp;<br />
<br />
Tim Clinton: We've got to stop it.&nbsp;<br />
<br />
Sharon May: Yes, and the way to stop the negative is remembering that this person in front of you is a struggling human being whom you chose to love and to cherish, and you've lost your way. Now, first, when you talk about safety, one is reassessing? Am I in a difficult marriage or am I in a destructive, abusive marriage? If you feel you are in the destructive, abusive marriage then you need to get counseling right away. If you feel your husband or your wife is an addict, is abusive, and that is just destroying your soul, and is damaging, then you need to get help.<br />
<br />
Do couples counseling, do a marriage intensive, but to be able to call my office. Call my office, email me, grow@havenofsafety.com and find out, "where can I get help? Is this a destructive and damaging marriage?" But, we're talking about more difficult marriages. Marriages where we start arguing that you didn't take the trash out and that you not taking the trash out has meaning to me. My dragons are raised when you don't take the trash out, and my fears and vulnerabilities put meaning on why you didn't take the trash out.<br />
<br />
Tim Clinton: I mean you're struggling with: "I mean you don't care about me. that's really what it is."&nbsp;<br />
<br />
Sharon May: Right, and at the bottom line of my fear is "I'm alone. I have to take care of myself. You don't love me and care for me." Then that meaning gets put on the trash. You're not taking the trash out, and because you don't care about me, you're not there for me, I have to take everything on, do everything on my own." It's so dangerous for me. My amygdala that part of brain that says, "Danger! Danger! You're now alone," fires up and now, I am prime to face the danger and you become my danger, and I start fighting what's seems dangerous. I might up the ante, I might use loud, harsh, critical words or blame or attack, all, so that you can see. "You know what, when you didn't take the trash out, it made me feel like I'm alone. That all the responsibilities are mine and you don't care for me." But instead of being soft and sharing that, I get harsh and critical and now I'm attacking and I'm blaming you. "You don't care about me!" And then as you're listening, you go "Well, of course I care about you. I just didn't take the trash out because it's raining, and you're wrong in thinking that I don't care about you so I defend myself! Well, of course I care about you. What are you talking about? You're crazy!" You know? And then on my &mdash;<br />
<br />
Tim Clinton: And so is your whole family.&nbsp;<br />
<br />
Sharon May: Yeah, and so is your whole family! And I'm like, "I'm not crazy. You're crazy! You've got a problem for not admitting that you have a problem." And so, I up the ante more.&nbsp;<br />
<br />
Tim Clinton: Yeah, you're sick.&nbsp;<br />
<br />
Sharon May: The more we're not emotionally attuned and then I'm resentful.&nbsp;<br />
<br />
Tim Clinton: Yeah, there's no attunement. That's a great word.&nbsp;<br />
<br />
Sharon May: Yes.&nbsp;<br />
<br />
Tim Clinton: We don't understand, we don't see each other. I had dinner the other night with a couple and it was intentional. They wanted to talk about the mess they were in. Toward the end of the evening, she had an "ah-ha" experience, and the truth was, she was very sad and broken, okay? Empty, alone, I mean she cried, but all of a sudden, she looked across the table and saw her husband and for the first time realized that he was feeling the same way and she couldn't believe it! She cried a little bit and she said, "I've never seen him like that. I didn't understand that." He is so frustrated. He's so angry. He &mdash; and everything he's doing just irritates me but the truth is, he is frantic. He is so chaotic because he's so afraid we're going to break up and then it's over." You can get so caught up in this cycle and you can't even see each other anymore, can you?&nbsp;<br />
<br />
Sharon May: Yes, and that cycle is what [crosstalk] &mdash;<br />
<br />
Tim Clinton: And the hate, and the hate is just going everywhere.<br />
<br />
Sharon May: Yes, and that cycle becomes destructive. That is a very powerful story you just told, Tim, because when we are able to get past that m&amp;m coating, that prickly shell, that defensiveness, that guardedness, or that attacking shell we have. When we get to see past that to our spouses' softer side, as that woman did that night that she looked past her husband defending or attacking or protecting, to see he's a struggling human being who has needs and hurts and just doesn't know how to share them in a way to be heard, when we start seeing each other's softer side, it starts lowering our guard.&nbsp;<br />
<br />
Tim Clinton: And it almost demands that we stop.&nbsp;<br />
<br />
Sharon May: Yes.&nbsp;<br />
<br />
Tim Clinton: You know, that we really, and this important. I hope everybody understands this. Reducing the negative means you've got to put that stuff into a box- we understand you're going to fight.&nbsp;<br />
<br />
Sharon May: Yes.&nbsp;<br />
<br />
Tim Clinton: But you can't let this continue to fester. You hear what I'm saying? And Sharon, this again, this is a hard piece for couples to break through. This is often where they need that third party to come in.&nbsp;<br />
<br />
Sharon May: Yes.&nbsp;<br />
<br />
Tim Clinton: And to have a safe place where they can discuss volatile issues. Maybe they're frustrated over each other's family or there's been a past hurt that they just can't get beyond. They can't release, they can't forgive. As they start seeing that, you can, by the way, increase the positive and I know it sounds very simplistic but it's not. When you become aware of the destructive patterns, when you start focusing on reducing the negative and you start realizing that we need a little love to flow between the two of us because I'm empty, I'm alone and all I want is for someone to what? Love me. Okay. What I can do is say, "I never saw you like that before," and if I can just start doing some slow careful reach back to you like, "I'll pray for us," [crosstalk]. Is there something I can do for you?&nbsp;<br />
<br />
Sharon May: Yeah, and you're right Tim, and things and saying like, "Can you say that a different way because I feel a guard going up and I know you are trying to tell me something important."&nbsp;<br />
<br />
Tim Clinton: You know what this guy said other night? He said, "You told me not long ago that I was a good dad." He said, "That shook me up so much because it meant so much to me. When you just tell me something like that, I'll walk on glass for you." But, because they were fighting so much &mdash; there's none of that soft love coming through.<br />
<br />
Sharon May: Right.&nbsp;<br />
<br />
Tim Clinton: So, these emotional strands of connectedness aren't there where you feel close, right Sharon? So, we somehow have to begin and this is why you might need some baby steps of help, getting that to start flowing between the two of you again.&nbsp;<br />
<br />
Sharon May: Right. When you have so much negativity and literally your emotional brain perceives your spouse as the enemy, to start crumbling that wall and to start lowering your own guard, and to start appreciating, listening, be slow to react. Don't do a harsh startup or immediately defensive or blame, but to be able to say something kind like, "Can you say that again because I really want to understand you," or "I value you. You know, I woke up this morning and I'm really glad I have you," or, "Is there something I can do for you today?" or, "I appreciate you." You know-<br />
<br />
Tim Clinton: Or just slip a little note somewhere.&nbsp;<br />
<br />
Sharon May: Yeah!&nbsp;<br />
<br />
Tim Clinton: Or send a text or whatever.&nbsp;<br />
<br />
Sharon May: Yes, and even to be able to say, "You know, we're in the meantime. We haven't fully got down the road. We haven't gone to counseling yet. We haven't done the intensive but, I know we'll get through to the other side because that's the heart of God for our marriage. But in the meantime, I want to appreciate you because I know you're hurting just as much as me. You're wanting to be valued and seen and hurt just as much as me."<br />
<br />
Tim Clinton: I love it. I love it because it means something to all of us.&nbsp;<br />
<br />
Sharon May: Yes!&nbsp;<br />
<br />
Tim Clinton: Maybe this is where like Gary Chapman's love languages becomes important because if we don't know how to reach to each other, in each other's love language especially at this kind of a moment.<br />
<br />
Sharon May: Yes.&nbsp;<br />
<br />
Tim Clinton: You can be loving someone with everything you got, and they don't know it.&nbsp;<br />
<br />
Sharon May: Well, they don't hear it or see it!&nbsp;<br />
<br />
Tim Clinton: Yeah I know. Yeah they don't feel it!<br />
<br />
Sharon May: Feel it, yes!&nbsp;<br />
<br />
Tim Clinton: And it's like, wait a second. What else do you want me to do?&nbsp;<br />
<br />
Sharon May: Yeah, right. I did the dishes! Don't you feel loved by me?&nbsp;<br />
<br />
Tim Clinton: So, what?&nbsp;<br />
<br />
Sharon May: Yeah.&nbsp;<br />
<br />
Tim Clinton: Yeah then, I don't even care if you do the dishes.&nbsp;<br />
<br />
&nbsp;Sharon May: Yes.&nbsp;<br />
<br />
Tim Clinton: What do you mean?<br />
<br />
Sharon May: Right.&nbsp;<br />
<br />
Tim Clinton: I did the dishes!&nbsp;<br />
<br />
Sharon May: Just come sit and hold my hands. Just spend time with me, you know then I feel loved. But you're right, understanding each other's love languages that I can reach you so that you can feel safe again with me, that you can trust me with your heart that you know I'll be emotionally available and attuned to you. I want to know you.&nbsp;<br />
<br />
Tim Clinton: Love it.&nbsp;<br />
<br />
Sharon May: And I want to respond to you in a caring manner, that I now start having good manner versus bad manners. You know, my mom always said, "We can treat people out on the street with the best manners but when we come home, our spouse becomes the same old person and we then can be rude and short and then we feel, "But I'm just being me." No, "you're being bad-mannered." My mom always said she was trying to make life on earth a little bit of heaven for my dad. I remember one time me saying, "But mom, dad was just kind of critical to you and kind of snippy to you!" You know, "Why are you still making him a cup of tea." And she said "no, I have chosen to love your dad, and I've made that promise to the Lord, and who I want to be, and how I want to love is my obedience to the Lord. So, if your dad chooses to be snippy, I'll go to him and I'll say, 'hey, that hurt me.' But I'm not going to be reactive in my loving: then I'll be mean back. Then, 'I'm not going to make you a cup of tea! and I'm going to use bad manners.' No! 'I'm going to love you, and I'm going to come to you, eye to eye, loving and caringly, and say, 'You know last night when you didn't take the trash out? And then you said I was kind of silly or stupid, you know that really hurt me.' I'm going to speak love. I'm going to go softer, quieter, gentler, when I speak my complaints and my hurts. I'm not going to get louder and more angry and more critical."&nbsp;<br />
<br />
Tim Clinton: Got to train yourself in this, Sharon.<br />
<br />
Sharon May: Oh, my goodness!&nbsp;<br />
<br />
Tim Clinton: Yeah, it takes work because it's natural to want to just go [inaudible].&nbsp;<br />
<br />
Sharon May: You know, and it takes character.&nbsp;<br />
<br />
Tim Clinton: Yeah it does.<br />
<br />
Sharon May: And that's when the Lord says, "You've got to grow and become like one whom has created us." That is a lifelong journey.&nbsp;<br />
<br />
Tim Clinton: Yes.&nbsp;<br />
<br />
Sharon May: To grow our character, we started doing "becoming real" seminars and classes for people. I've started doing intensives for individuals because they say, "Okay, I get it. I came to the marriage intensive. I know what I need to do in the marriage but for me personally, to grow and become Christ-like to love well is a whole another journey that the Lord calls us on, and I hear you, &mdash;<br />
<br />
Tim Clinton: Sharon, let's do this because I know we're fighting the clock a little bit. A number of people listening no doubt are in a situation where it's painful, maybe their spouse is done or the hurts are so deep that they're stuck. They're trying but they can't get beyond it and they're going to need some help and forgiveness. We got a lot of work because when you look at back of these two broadcasts, you realize "Man, we've hurt each other a lot and we're going to need a lot deep, the deep oil of forgiveness and grace. We're going to have to bring some honor back," but for those who were stuck, you've been involved and I know a number of people out there doing now these marriage intensives, I'd like for you to take a moment and talk about why they're significant and what you really try to get done in say like a, quote, maybe an extended week of just doing intensive couple's therapy.<br />
<br />
Sharon May: Yes. In my experience, I am finding that couples do better in an intensive setting. That means they will come for two to three to four days and we work on the marriage from 9:30 to four o'clock every single day, and some couples go, "Whoa!" You mean &mdash;<br />
<br />
Tim Clinton: I bet that's a little bit of fun up front, huh?<br />
<br />
Sharon May: You know, yes! It &mdash; do I? Is this going to be like you're going to beat me up for three to four days? No. We get to the heart of the issues right away. We get to the softer side. We get to identify the cycle and we get to identify what's really going on and what are you really longing for. We get to identify the hurts and how to heal them.<br />
<br />
Tim Clinton: Yeah, you're not skirting the issues.&nbsp;<br />
<br />
Sharon May: No.&nbsp;<br />
<br />
Tim Clinton: Sharon, you're going right- you're going right into the mess.&nbsp;<br />
<br />
Sharon May: Oh, and I tell you, couples will say, "What? It's one o'clock. It's lunch time already? My goodness, that went by so quickly." You see, a lot of couples go to weekly sessions, and I'm not saying all weekly sessions are not good and healthy, but a lot of times, couples say &mdash;<br />
<br />
Tim Clinton: It depends on the couple.&nbsp;<br />
<br />
Sharon May: Right. It's the argument of the week [crosstalk] &mdash;<br />
<br />
Tim Clinton: Situation.&nbsp;<br />
<br />
Sharon May: We're just unraveling, and men feel, "you're going to pick, pick, pick, pick at me and I'm the problem and she's [crosstalk]&mdash;"<br />
<br />
Tim Clinton: So, every &mdash; every therapy session's a disaster.<br />
<br />
Sharon May: Exactly, and we don't get anywhere. We've been doing this for six months and an intensive can get you ahead what would take six or eight months' worth of counseling. I highly recommend doing, reaching out, and investigating, and researching the intensive. You can reach me at grow@havenofsafety.com. I'd be willing to give you information on the intensive model versus couple's counseling and to find you something [crosstalk].<br />
<br />
Tim Clinton: Sharon, I want to throw this in too. We know now that if couples go for marriage counseling, typically they're getting the help they want. These marriage intensives, they tend to have a very high success rate, don't they?&nbsp;<br />
<br />
Sharon May: Very high success rate, yes. We get to the heart of the issue within those first few days and so, it's productive and you walk away with having gone through a path instead of just dealing with the argument of the week. I would love to, if I can Tim, say that Family Talk, if the listeners would like to do an intensive, I would like to work out something that to make it affordable for them so that no couple should be stuck arguing in resentment when there is help.<br />
<br />
Tim Clinton: You might get a little overwhelmed.&nbsp;<br />
<br />
Sharon May: Well we can work together.&nbsp;<br />
<br />
Tim Clinton: Sharon, yes we can. We will, and Sharon, would you take a few moments here and now I guess. I want to slow this way down. For the woman who may be driving down the road in her van, and the kids are back there and this is her story, or maybe it's the man. He could be in a truck, middle of Arkansas, somewhere, and every time he calls home, it's not working. He just wants somebody to pray for him. He's dialed in. She's dialed in and would you just take a moment and pray for them, over them? And then, we're going to learn a little bit more about how to get in touch with you. Okay, let's do that.&nbsp;<br />
<br />
Sharon May: Yes. Well thank you for tuning in and listening and you are listening to today's program. It's not by chance that the Lord is calling you closer to His heart because He hears your cries.&nbsp;<br />
<br />
Lord, as you watch this woman, this man, you know them by name Lord. You know what's going on in their marriage. Lord, I ask that you will give them hope and courage and strength with this journey. That the Lord's desire for your marriage is for healing in wholeness, to bring you to His best He has for you and that many couples come to the edge of that cliff not because they want to leave but because they don't know how to connect and their longing is to connect.&nbsp;<br />
<br />
So, for you, I pray that the Lord speaks into your heart and to your marriage and gives you the courage to step out, to get help, to risk to be vulnerable with your spouse, to lower your guard and to reach out and to love in a different way. The Lord is with you. You're not alone and there is hope.&nbsp;<br />
<br />
Tim Clinton: Amen.&nbsp;<br />
<br />
Sharon May: Amen.&nbsp;<br />
<br />
Tim Clinton: Sharon, one more time. How can they reach you?&nbsp;<br />
<br />
Sharon May: My email address is grow, G-R-O-W, @havenofsafety. My website is safehavenrelationshipcenter.com and I look forward to hearing your story and helping you get the information you need so you can make a decision on how to heal and grow your marriage.&nbsp;<br />
<br />
Tim Clinton: There's nothing more beautiful in all the world than to be in a relationship with someone who's supposed to love you and they actually love you. That's our prayer over you today, that God would do that work in and through your life.&nbsp;<br />
<br />
Dr. Dobson: Well this is James Dobson again, at the end of the second half of this broadcast. I do hope you enjoyed listening to Dr. Tim Clinton as he interviewed Dr. Sharon May about her heart and passion for married couples here on Family Talk. If you missed part one of this conversation between these two clinicians, go to today's broadcast's page, drjamesdobson.org, and there you will find the link to day one of this interview along with more information about Dr. May's ministry, the Safe Haven Relationship Counseling Center. Once again, this is James Dobson. Thanks for being with us today. We'll see you tomorrow.<br />
<br />
Announcer: This has been a presentation of the Dr. James Dobson Family Institute.<br />
<br />
Roger Marsh: You've been listening to Family Talk, and one of our best of the best broadcasts from the year that was 2018. Now, before we close, I want to remind you of our matching grant that's going on right now. Here at the Dobson Family Institute, we rely on your generosity to continue fighting for families, and from now until the end of the year, every donation you make will be doubled! Learn how you can partner with us today by visiting drjamesdobson.org. I'm Roger Marsh. Have a blessed day everyone, from all of us here at Family Talk.<br />
<br />
Roger Marsh: Hi, this is Roger Marsh for Family Talk with some exciting news! We have put together 18 of Dr. Dobson's most favorite broadcasts of the past year, and we present them to you, together, on six audio CDs in the 2018 Family Talk Best of Broadcast collection. Join Dr. Dobson and many incredible guests, including Jentezen Franklin, Greg Laurie, Jessa and John Crisp, and more, in this compelling audio collection. You can get your CD set as our thank you for a suggested donation of fifty dollars or more in support of Family Talk. Join Dr. Dobson in serving families. Call 877-732-6825 or visit drjamesdobson.org."
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<br />
Roger Marsh: Hello everyone, this is Roger Marsh. Thank you for listening to this Family Talk broadcast. I'm excited you've joined us today, as we bring you one of our best broadcasts from 2018. Throughout the month of December, we'll be highlighting our most listened to shows, along with some of Dr. Dobson's hand-picked favorites. So, sit back, relax, and enjoy this popular program from this past year.<br />
<br />
Narrator: Today on Family Talk ...<br />
<br />
James C. Dobson: Hello everyone, and welcome to Family Talk. I'm your host, Dr. James Dobson, and we're going to talk about marriage today. The Creator says in Genesis 2 that men and women were designed specifically for one another, and when they come together under the banner of marriage, they become one flesh or one identity. Now I paraphrased that, but you know that scripture. What an incredible concept it is. In other places in scripture, we read that this commitment is intended for life and that husbands and wives are to love each other and care for each other unconditionally. Jesus himself echoed this scripture; in fact, he was quoting from Genesis 1:27 and 2:24. He said, this is in Matthew 19:3-6: "Some Pharisees came to him to test him. They asked, 'Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for any kind of reason?' 'Haven't you read,' Jesus replied, 'that at the beginning the Creator 'male and female,' and said, 'For this reason,'" and by the way, this is Genesis 2:24, "'For this reason, a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh.' They're no longer two, but one. Therefore, what God has joined together, let no man separate."<br />
<br />
Now recently, we sent Dr. Tim Clinton on a mission. He's got plenty to do in his own right, but agreed to do this. We asked him to interview Dr. Sharon May. She's a licensed marriage, family, and child counselor, state licensed, and she's the daughter of our dear, dear friend Archibald and Kathleen Hart. She's the head of the Safe Haven Relationship Counseling Center in Southern California. She and Dr. Clinton are doing to discuss the terrible downward spiral of brokenness and anger and hurt that some couples find themselves in. How they can break free from that cycle and reconnect with their spouse. It is possible. Now let's go to part one of this great conversation here on Family Talk.<br />
<br />
Tim Clinton: Today on Family Talk, we have an amazing guest. Actually, one of my favorite guests, Dr. Sharon May. She serves clients from the greater San Diego area: Orange County, Los Angeles, and by the way all over the country because she is involved now in what's called "new marriage intensives." We're going to be talking a lot more about that, but Sharon, hey. It's great to have you in studio. Always fun to be with you.<br />
<br />
Sharon May: It's really good to be with you, Tim. Thank you so much for having me on the program.<br />
<br />
Tim Clinton: Sharon, you're an expert in relationships. We're going to talk today about primarily loveless, empty relationships. I heard someone say once, "There's nothing more beautiful in all the world," Sharon, "than to be in a relationship with someone who's supposed to love you, and they actually love you. There's nothing more painful in all the world than to be in a relationship with someone who's supposed to love you and they don't love you." Sharon, what are you seeing out there on the landscape of relationships of marriages that you serve every day?<br />
<br />
Sharon May: You know, Tim, what you are describing is the heart of God because if we go back into the New Testament or go forward into the New Testament, we hear God's heart in saying, "Love the Lord, your God, with all your heart and all your mind and all your soul, and love each other." That it is the heart of God for us to love and be loved. We thrive in life when we are in a healthy relationship, in a healthy marriage relationship. I sit just about every day all day with couples, and most of them fighting of course-<br />
<br />
Tim Clinton: "All we do is fight, all we do is fight."<br />
<br />
Sharon May: I know.<br />
<br />
Tim Clinton: Everybody fights.<br />
<br />
Sharon May: Yeah, and the marriage intensives that I do, and that I see at the heart of a couple's conflict is a longing to be heard, to be seen, to be understood. To feel, "Are you there for me? Do you care for me? Do you have my back? Do you hear me and understand me?" We get stuck arguing and fighting in attempts to be heard, but our attempts are usually more destructive than they are constructive. Couples land up having years of "that hurt me," "do you see me?", "do you understand me?" Defending, "I'm not as bad as you think I am," "I didn't mean that," "hear me," "understand me," and this battle we get into that leaves both of us hurting, disconnected ...<br />
<br />
Tim Clinton: Let's offer our listeners a guilt-free job here for a moment. Sharon and I are both going to tell you this, that all marriages are going to go through periods of disaffection.<br />
<br />
Sharon May: Marriage is hard work-<br />
<br />
Tim Clinton: And it can turn into a mess.<br />
<br />
Sharon May: Yes.<br />
<br />
Tim Clinton: It really can be a mess, and painful because it's not fun being in a relationship that's not working, and going out on a date night with somebody you don't like.<br />
<br />
Sharon May: Yes, and you might be in love. You might love each other. I find that a lot of couples say, "I love my spouse but I don't like them." It is the impact, or the residue, of resentment and hurt. "You haven't seen me or heard me or understood me." You know, couples argue. If you want to know "do I have a healthy marriage?", the barometer can't be "how often do we argue or do we fight, or how different we are?" We usually marry someone who's very different.<br />
<br />
Tim Clinton: Sure we do.<br />
<br />
Sharon May: As John Gottman says, "Our differences are going to be there four years later because our differences are about personality and [inaudible 06:47] differences." It's what we do with those differences and how we argue that either fosters that safe haven, fosters that close-connected bond, or destroys it, or starts disintegrating it. So, what is a healthy marriage? A healthy marriage really is a couple who is able to turn toward each other because they have three ingredients: tar, "it's the glue that keeps us together"; it's trust, "I trust you with my heart. I trust that you have my best interest in mind. Even though you say something that's maybe rude or your tone of voice or you forget to do something, I know that at the end of the day, I can trust you with me. Secondly, that you're going to be available to me emotionally, that you care enough. You're going to slow down. You're going to be attuned to me, and you'll get to know me. Then thirdly, that you're going to respond in the best interest of us, that you will respond in a considerate manner."&nbsp;<br />
<br />
A healthy marriage is one where, of course we're going to disagree. We're going to disagree probably about most things, but that we can turn toward each other. That we can say, "You know last night? That hurt me." That we can be [influencable 08:00]. "Did I hurt you? I'm so sorry, but what I was trying to get you to understand was that we can turn toward each other. We can resolve things. At the end of the day, I know you're going to be there for me. You'll listen to me, understand me, and be influenced by me."<br />
<br />
Tim Clinton: So Sharon, let's step back for a moment because we know this. You've been there, I've been there. There are moments in a relationship when you don't have the tar factor going.<br />
<br />
Sharon May: Yes.<br />
<br />
Tim Clinton: I've heard this statement: "the level of intimacy or closeness, emotional closeness between us, will never rise above the fear or anger between us." Here's this fight; the pace, the pressure, the pain of modern-day life's beating us to death, and it's not fun to come home. Sharon, let's start there. Let's go to ground zero for a moment and let's kind of do a repair. That's what you've talked about. You like to do relationship repair.<br />
<br />
Sharon May: Yes.<br />
<br />
Tim Clinton: Take us basic steps: where do we go?<br />
<br />
Sharon May: First, we've got to realize that we did marry someone whom we had hoped would be our safe haven. That-<br />
<br />
Tim Clinton: Sort of an expectation there, yeah.<br />
<br />
Sharon May: Yes, and that on our wedding day, we did say, "Lord, this human being is imperfect. I am, but I am choosing to be with him for a lifetime." We have to go back and remember "there was something about this person that drew my heart to them." As we hold that hope of, "Lord, can we come back to that?", we then pull back and say, "What has been the ugly cycle that we've gotten stuck in that has caused us to disintegrate?" Sometimes it's not that we've married the wrong person. It's that the resentment and the cycle that we get stuck in has kept us guarded and protective, and angry, and hurt.&nbsp;<br />
<br />
Tim Clinton: Let's talk a little bit about how when the pain comes how, like John Gottman has taught and our friend Scott [Stanley 10:04] and others have taught; these are marital research experts, that negative communication patterns start developing and taking over the relationship. It isn't really about trying to hurt each other when we start criticizing, "The problem is you never show me you love me. It's you, Sharon. You're the problem. You are the problem." "No no, Tim, you're the problem." This chaotic communication pattern, which is really trying to recover the relationship or get you to love me, "I'm just trying to get your attention. I want you to know I'm not happy. I'm frustrated, please. What I do is I attack you almost. I criticize you and say you're the problem, which by the way, puts you on the defensive." Talk about that communication.<br />
<br />
Sharon May: Absolutely, because that is the negative cycle we get stuck in as we are trying to be heard. I, then, up the ante and I pursue you, and I say it louder and harsher and more critical hoping that you will understand, that when you didn't take the trash out, it really made me feel hurt. Then, the more I pursue and I get hot and angry, the more you're going to defend yourself and you're going to say, "I'm not as bad as you say I am. These are the reasons why." I blame, and we get stuck in this pursue/withdraw, this attack/defend pattern.<br />
<br />
Tim Clinton: Yeah, it's almost like, "Hey, it doesn't matter what I do. I can't make you happy. You're impossible. It's not me. What else do you expect from me?" You know what I'm saying?<br />
<br />
Sharon May: Absolutely, and what Daniel [Wiley 11:37] says that, "I can't hear you until I feel you understand me." I then get on my high horse and I am desperate to get you to hear me, but you can't hear me because you feel I don't understand you, and we get stuck in this cycle. If couples stay stuck in this cycle where we start rewriting our safe haven, we start rewriting, "You know what? You're not safe. You're not a good man. You're not there for me. I can't trust you with my heart," and then you become the enemy. If I'm living with the enemy, I close up my heart. I take my heart back, and I am guarded and I am quick to respond. I'm quick to get angry. I'm quick to be defensive. Then you are as well, and we get two people who have rewritten the safe haven as saying, "You're not my safe haven. I need to protect and be guarded."&nbsp;<br />
<br />
We then start living parallel lives. I start then trusting my friends, I take care of the children. I maybe do tasks and my hobbies, and so do you. You work more. Maybe you're playing golf, you've got your buddies. We are then home alone. As you said at the beginning, Tim, where we're in a marriage where we're supposed to have someone who cares for us, is there for us, and we feel so guarded like "you're not there for me," we feel home alone. That's the saddest place to be. "I can't trust you with me. You don't understand me. All you do is defend. You always blame me, that I'm the bad person, and I'm home alone." That sadness and grief often is masked and is covered with anger and resentment. We lose sight of our softer heart. We lose sight of saying, "You know what? I've gotten so angry and resentful and mad at you," and we lose sight of knowing how to say, "You know what? Our arguments have gotten where I'm so guarded, I don't even trust you with my heart anymore, but I know I married you because you were special to me and you're meaning to me."<br />
<br />
Tim Clinton: It's confusing.<br />
<br />
Sharon May: And now it's confusing.<br />
<br />
Tim Clinton: And it's chaotic.<br />
<br />
Sharon May: And it's chaotic, and you know Tim? Couples stay in this chaotic space, John Gottman says, for four years before they cry out for help. Some couple stay here for 15 years, and then they say, "Why are we even married?" Then they divorce when actually, they're longing to find a way back home to each other.<br />
<br />
Tim Clinton: Sharon, in some of the research out there on broken couples, we're learning that negative interactions are far more predictive in value than positive ones. In other words, if all you do is fight, "If all we're doing is fighting, I mean every time I pick up the phone, all we do is fight. Every time we see each other, all we do is fight. Every time we go out on date night, all we do is ..."<br />
<br />
Sharon May: Fight.&nbsp;<br />
<br />
Tim Clinton: Fight. What are they saying there when they say negative behavior is far more predictive than positive behavior? It's like five to twenty positives to counteract one negative in a bad marriage.<br />
<br />
Sharon May: Right, right.<br />
<br />
Tim Clinton: That means we got some work to do to get of the negative, right?<br />
<br />
Sharon May: Yes. The more we stay stuck arguing, the more I start viewing my spouse as not safe. "You don't care about me. You don't have my best interest in mind, and the more I redefine you as the enemy. If we stay stuck in that rut, you are my enemy, I will approach every event as, 'You are the enemy. You're against me.' I won't trust your intentions as being positive. I won't give you the benefit of the doubt." Forgiving of or letting go of small little slights doesn't happen, and we're quick to be irritable, to be critical, and to be harsh. If you are stuck in that marriage, you have to take a step back. Maybe you've been like a frog in the kettle and you've gotten there, and you're listening right now [inaudible 15:46] saying, "Oh my goodness. This is my marriage. You mean it's not supposed to be this way?" No, it's not the heart of God. The heart of God is for you to love well. The heart of God is for you to grow and become everything He has for you so that you can love well.<br />
<br />
You need to take a step back and say, "Time out. I am not going to continue my part of this negative cycle. I need to take a step back and say, 'Okay, what is the cycle my husband and I are stuck in, or my wife and I are stuck in?'" Name that cycle. Draw it out on a piece of paper. When I say to my husband, "You didn't take the trash out," this is what I'm feeling. This is what he does in reaction. This is what I then do in reaction to him. Draw the cycle. Maybe go to your spouse, "You know what? I think this is a cycle we get stuck in. I don't want to do it anymore. I don't want to be the angry pursuer who feels like a mother telling you what to do, because then I feel like you're a child. I then feel like you don't have my back. I don't want to have that position anymore. I want to change it."<br />
<br />
Tim Clinton: The truth is, Sharon, when you get into that pattern, I'm looking at you thinking, "I don't like you."<br />
<br />
Sharon May: Yes.<br />
<br />
Tim Clinton: "You become the exact thing that I don't like."<br />
<br />
Sharon May: Yes, exactly.&nbsp;<br />
<br />
Tim Clinton: What's interesting too is when we get in trouble, we default to our strengths. What that means is if I'm pretty orderly and controlled and I want things solved right now, I'm intensely that way.<br />
<br />
Sharon May: Yes.<br />
<br />
Tim Clinton: If you're free-floating and you like a little space, and you want to be playful, you don't like that person. We then begin to see each other wrong. It's like, "I see you as intrusive, manipulative, controlling, demanding." Truth is, all you want is some type loving response, but I think it's the opposite. You see me as withdrawing, uncaring, aloof, distant, because "if you really cared for me, if you really loved me, you'd come to me. You'd talk to me. You'd solve these issues." I'm thinking, "No I won't, because every time I do, all we do is what?"<br />
<br />
Sharon May: We just argue and fight. You know, Tim, what you've outlined in a very beautiful way but for many of the listeners, probably it's hitting home for them saying, "That's exactly how it is at home," is being able to take a step back and identifying it. If your husband is withdrawing and shutting down and defensive, what is really going on at the heart? He's not wanting to have a miserable marriage. He is longing to be heard and understood, and those are his coping mechanisms. Those are his protective coating. If your wife is always angry and pursuing and attacking, that is more of her defensive mode, her protective mode. That's not at the true heart of what she is trying to get at. The true heart of what she's saying is, "Can you please put your hand through my porcupine quills, through all of my yelling and my criticism, and know me. Really get to understand what I'm really trying to get you to hear and see." Put your hands through that cold ice wall of your husband. Get to his heart of saying, "Beyond your shut down and you're no longer talking and distracted," put your hand through that ice cold wall to the heart of him.&nbsp;<br />
<br />
Until we can, as couples, slow down, recognize our negative cycle, and move toward understanding our own softer side and the softer side of our spouse, we will stay stuck in our negative cycle.<br />
<br />
Tim Clinton: Maybe it's just two broken people who were trying to fix something that's not getting fixed. You're right. We're empty and lost, and we're angry. We're really angry.<br />
<br />
Sharon May: Yes, and if you've come to a place where you are too angry and too lost and too empty, and that it feels so big for you to be able to go to your softer side and say to your spouse, to say to your husband, "You know what? I've been so angry lately," for years, maybe, "and I've bene resentful and I've taken back my heart. I don't trust it in your hands anymore." If it's too difficult for you to be vulnerable, to go to your spouse and make that confession, then it is time for you to reach out to get help to be able to go to your spouse and say, "This is too big for us."<br />
<br />
Tim Clinton: I want to talk about that, Sharon, as we wrap up our very first day here talking about empty, loveless relationships and what you can do, because we really believe God's in the midst of that. No matter where you're at right now-<br />
<br />
Sharon May: Amen.<br />
<br />
Tim Clinton: There's still hope, and we want to bring that word to you. Sharon, for Christians in particular too, there's a lot of shame and embarrassment when your marriage doesn't work.<br />
<br />
Sharon May: Absolutely. When you realize that that struggle is a human being struggle. We all argue, and arguing is not dangerous to a marriage. It's not being able to come to some resolve, being able to turn toward each other, and be able to come to some, "Okay, I understand you but I disagree, all right," and we can turn toward each other and still feel loved and cared for. That is key. When our arguments leave us disconnected and angry and resentful, then our arguments become dangerous. First, you're a human being. If the two of you have differences, that you don't agree on how the dishes should be packed in the dishwasher, welcome to being a human being. If you argue on the way to church, welcome. I bet you your pastor more times than not has argued on the way to church.<br />
<br />
Tim Clinton: Oh yeah.<br />
<br />
Sharon May: It is then finding a way out of that resentment and getting stuck in the negativity of the cycle. It's finding your way out to saying, "I still love you. I care for you. I want to grow old with you. Let us remember that we are each other's safe haven. Let's recognize the cycle that we get stuck in. We're not going to have this cycle win or beat us down. There is a way to be able to resolve so we can turn toward and still find a safe haven with each other."<br />
<br />
Tim Clinton: Sharon, a very significant conversation. It impacts all of us. I know in counselor training we say this: when we train counselors, we tell them, "You can't treat what you don't see. You got to be able to see it." To those of you who are out there, you may be a little frustrated saying, "Wait, what are we going to do? What's next?" We're going to come back tomorrow. Sharon, if you would br gracious enough to do that for us, and talk about the journey back toward feeling safe, to being emotionally free. How about emotionally close with each other where you can trust? Where you can accept influence one another? Where you can enjoy your life and love together? Promise you're going to do that?<br />
<br />
Sharon May: Absolutely. I look forward to it.<br />
<br />
Tim Clinton: All right.<br />
<br />
Once again, this is Dr. Tim Clinton, president of the American Association of Christian Counselors sitting in for Dr. Dobson today. Our special guest has been Dr. Sharon May. Sharon runs the Safe Haven Relationship Center. She's actually out of California. She's fun. I don't know if you've noticed her South African accent, but it's spectacular. Sharon, how can people reach you, want to learn more about what you do? Maybe some of the books you've written and the gift of grace that you are to all of us?<br />
<br />
Sharon May: If you want to reach me, you can reach me at grow@havenofsafety.com. That's grow@havenofsafety.com. My website is safehavenrelationshipcenter.com. Safehavenrelationshipcenter.com. We have information there about how to heal your marriage, the marriage intensives and classes that we offer. If you are a therapist and you are looking to get training in a very effective way of helping couples heal and grow in their marriages, emotionally-focused therapy, the faith-based emotionally-focused therapy, you can find information there as well.<br />
<br />
James C. Dobson: Well this is James Dobson again, and you're listening to an interview Dr. Tim Clinton conducted with Dr. Sharon May. We requested that they get together. I think you've been touched today by what they had to share. If you would like to know about Dr. May's Safe Haven Relationship Counseling Center, you can learn more by going to our website, drjamesdobson.org, and then click on today's broadcast page.&nbsp;<br />
<br />
Thanks for listening, everybody. Hope you enjoyed the program. Remember to join us to hear the remainder of the conversation. That's next time on Family Talk. I'm Dr. James Dobson. Have a great day.&nbsp;<br />
<br />
Narrator: This has been a presentation of the Dr. James Dobson Family Institute.<br />
<br />
Roger Marsh: You've been listening to Family Talk, and one of our best of the best broadcasts from the year that was 2018. Now, before we close, I want to remind you of our matching grant that's going on right now. Here at the Dobson Family Institute, we rely on your generosity to continue fighting for families, and from now until the end of the year, every donation you make will be doubled! So, five dollars becomes ten, 25 becomes 50, 50 becomes 100, and so on. Now this match is in place until we've reached our goal, so we urge you to take advantage of it right now. Learn how you can partner with us today by visiting drjamesdobson.org, or by calling 877-732-6825. Thanks so much for listening today, and be sure to join us again next time, for another 2018 best of broadcast. I'm Roger Marsh. Have a blessed day everyone, from all of us here at Family Talk.<br />
<br />
Roger Marsh: Hi, this is Roger Marsh for Family Talk with some exciting news! We have put together 18 of Dr. Dobson's most favorite broadcasts of the past year, and we present them to you, together, on six audio CDs in the 2018 Family Talk Best of Broadcast collection. Join Dr. Dobson and many incredible guests, including Jentezen Franklin, Greg Laurie, Jessa and John Crisp, and more, in this compelling audio collection. You can get your CD set as our thank you for a suggested donation of fifty dollars or more in support of Family Talk. Join Dr. Dobson in serving families. Call 877-732-6825 or visit drjamesdobson.org."
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          string(28613) "Roger Marsh: Hi, this is Roger Marsh. Thank you so much for listening to this special edition of Family Talk. I'm really glad you've joined us today, as we'll be bringing you another one of our best of broadcasts from 2018. Throughout December we're going to be highlighting our most listened to shows, along with some of Dr. Dobson's hand-picked favorites as well. So, sit back and relax and enjoy this one: one of our most popular programs from the past year.&nbsp;<br />
<br />
Announcer: Today on family talk.&nbsp;<br />
<br />
Roger Marsh: Hello everyone, and welcome to today's edition of Family Talk, with your host, psychologist and best-selling author, Dr. James Dobson.<br />
<br />
Today on the program, you'll hear a great interview that Doctor Tim Clinton did with internationally recognized evangelist Nick Vujicic. And Nick will talk about his new book Be the Hands and Feet, and the message of God's love and grace as he preaches to millions of people around the world. Let's jump into this penetrating conversation right now here on Dr. James Dobson's family talk.<br />
<br />
Tim Clinton: Hi everyone, I'm doctor Tim Clinton, president of the American Association of Christian Counselors filling in today for Doctor Dobson here on family talk. I'm so happy to be sitting with a dear friend of our ministry, world renowned speaker evangelist Nick Vujicic. Nick, thank you for joining us.<br />
<br />
Nick Vujicic: Brother Tim, my honor and pleasure. How are you?<br />
<br />
Tim Clinton: If you don't know Nick's story, he was born without arms and legs and as a kid faced merciless bullying, deep depression as a child and more. But God had a plan for his life. And God has done something spectacular in and through him. Nick didn't let physical disability stop him from reaching the masses for Christ. You're going to be so encouraged by his story. Today, we're going to be talking about his new book, be the hands and feet living out God's love for all of his children.<br />
<br />
Tim Clinton: Nick again, thanks for taking time out of your crazy schedule to join us on family talk.<br />
<br />
Nick Vujicic: No, love you. Thank you for having me. I've been a fan of Doctor Dobson for a very very long time ever since I could ever remember listening to radio. Our family listens to family talk actually and we love what you guys are doing. You're bringing value back to America in our family which is the most important thing. Of course, we need biblical values but it's all about the truth. The truth about supporting one another so that we all can do all that God wants us to do.<br />
<br />
Tim Clinton: We have a lot of mutual passions and this interview ... Let me start out this way Nick. You speak all over the world but one of the most important elements to your ministry is letting people know how much ... how beautiful they are, how they're loved. Why is that?<br />
<br />
Nick Vujicic: For me as a kid growing up in a beautiful christian home who loved me, who set up our home as a refuge. no matter what happened in my life at school, I knew I could always come home to loving arms and cry if I wanted to. I'm definitely I'm not the biggest victim of bullying in the world, not at all. And we all have broken pieces in our life and rejection and fear. And really unfortunately, the saddest moments of my life these days are seeing people who don't see their value, who don't see their potential, who believe the lies that they're ugly or that they're a failure and that they'll never become someone that they're happy with and fulfilled. And I want everyone to know that if God can use a man without arms and legs to be His hands and feet, then God can use any willing heart.&nbsp;<br />
<br />
Nick Vujicic: And I believe that with so much depression all around the world and in America, I believe that there is a lack of purpose for individuals lives. And I believe finding first of all the truth of your value to know that you're wonderfully and faithfully made, to know that you're not forgotten and that there's a God given purpose for your life, that's a cure for the lowest of depressions. And for me, going through bullying brought me to that depression. But my parents always said, "Nick, don't worry. God has a plan for you. You're beautiful just the way you are." And one of the early speeches that I did, a girl came up to me saying, "No one has ever told they loved me. No one has ever told me I'm beautiful the way that I am." And I knew at that time, if my parents never told me those two things, I would not be here today. And that's what I want. I want the next generation to know the truth and to be finding the freedom of knowing that you are beautiful just the way that you are.<br />
<br />
Tim Clinton: Love it. You're a prolific writer and you've written-<br />
<br />
Nick Vujicic: My ghost writer is good.<br />
<br />
Tim Clinton: But you've written on some amazing topics-<br />
<br />
Nick Vujicic: Thank you.<br />
<br />
Tim Clinton: That resonate with everyday life.<br />
<br />
Nick Vujicic: Thanks Tim [crosstalk 00:04:30].<br />
<br />
Tim Clinton: Depression, bullying and more. One of my favorite was stand strong-<br />
<br />
Nick Vujicic: Yeah, it's a great book.<br />
<br />
Tim Clinton: You can overcome bullying and Nick you're so right. Even adults by the way can experience not ... So a lot of people listening right now, they're up against hard times and-<br />
<br />
Nick Vujicic: Absolutely.<br />
<br />
Tim Clinton: They need that message. Now, inside of many of your earlier books, you always anchored your message in Christ. But here now in your new book, be the hands and feet, you really move in a direction of speaking candidly, openly, anchoring your entire life in Christ. And you push us in that direction. Can you tell me why you have such a passion, I guess, for evangelism and what it means to be anchored in the Lord?<br />
<br />
Nick Vujicic: Well, I don't know about every listener listening right now but the first time I really felt the peace of God was when I gave my life to Jesus Christ when I was 15 years old. And I will never forget jumping up and down on my bed just out of pure joy. And I'm thinking, "Man, I just want the whole world to know this. I want them to know that this is real." I want them to know heaven is real and God has a plan for them too. And you get so fired up and you realize money, drugs, sex, alcohol, pornography, fame and fortune, if you put any of your happiness or security in any temporary things, your happiness and security will be temporary and not outlive the way that God wants you to have this life. And so I want everyone to know not just the truth of their value and their purpose, but really their destiny. We were built for something greater. We know that there is eternity. It's deep within our soul.&nbsp;<br />
<br />
Nick Vujicic: You can't put your finger on it but you know that God is real and that God's got a plan for you. Maybe you can't see exactly how it's defined. Tim, I come across so many people who say, "Well, I don't know what to do for God. I don't know what my purpose is." And I'm like, "First of all, love God. And when you know God, don't you just want to tell somebody else about him." And so that's where the passion comes from. It's not just to help teenagers not commit suicide and not just save lives but it's about saving souls. And when I see God face to face, I carry my own soul to heaven by the grace of God and I wonder if when I see him, He'll look over my shoulder and say, "Who else did you bring?"<br />
<br />
Nick Vujicic: Because the Bible is really clear about having jewels in our crown for every person that you bring to the knowledge of the good news and hope in Jesus Christ. And for me, I want to be the best of what I can be. And people seeing me and saying, "Wow, if a man without arms and legs can be fulfilled and happy. Then what has he got that I don't have." And it's Jesus Jesus Jesus.&nbsp;<br />
<br />
Tim Clinton: The word hope keeping coming into my mind as you're talking. If you don't have hope, you don't have anything.<br />
<br />
Nick Vujicic: Amen.<br />
<br />
Tim Clinton: And so what the Lord offers us is hope. But at times Nick, and you know this, it can still get dark. It's easy to get confused. You start wondering, "God, where are you?" Especially when life doesn't go the way it's supposed to go. Nick how did you continue to keep yourself anchored in that? How do you keep yourself from being angry about the journey you were on?&nbsp;<br />
<br />
Nick Vujicic: You know-<br />
<br />
Tim Clinton: Sure, the lord's there, you hear what I'm saying. And yeah, we're excited but it's easy to lose that kind of "zippity doo-dah yeah I love this."<br />
<br />
Nick Vujicic: First you got find the healing process in that. So the wounds in your mind and heart based on the conclusions that you had made out fear and the unknowns around you. When you blame God for the pain in your life, it takes time. When you get so scared and angry at Him because he doesn't make sense to you. It takes time to overcome with fear, encouragement and support around you. But the three things that my parents taught that was so key for anyone who's in a valley of depression or darkness. Number one, they always told me to be still thankful for what I have. Write down the five or ten things that you are so grateful for. The average American struggles to pray more than three minutes a day. I sit on-<br />
<br />
Tim Clinton: It's true.<br />
<br />
Nick Vujicic: The toilet for 20 minutes a day. And by God, if I live for Him, through Him and only by His strength, I think I can spend 20 minutes a day in solitude, in meditation, in scripture. And it's that discipline-<br />
<br />
Tim Clinton: Why do you think we have such a hard time doing that Nick?<br />
<br />
Nick Vujicic: Because there's a-<br />
<br />
Tim Clinton: Most people do.<br />
<br />
Nick Vujicic: There's an opposition.&nbsp;<br />
<br />
Tim Clinton: Sure.<br />
<br />
Nick Vujicic: There's no opposition to just pick up that magazine. There's no opposition to just turn on the TV. There's no opposition ... because the enemy knows that if you put on your armor, they can't get you. And so many Christians forget that we're at war every single day. How dare we believe that we can walk out the front door without praying? And if you want to start praying longer, here's a trick. Write down ten things that you're thankful for and thank God for all those ten things. You'll pray for more than three minutes for sure. That attitude of gratitude. My parents came from immigration ... from communism Yugoslavia and they emigrated to Australia with $10 in their pocket.<br />
<br />
Tim Clinton: Wow.<br />
<br />
Nick Vujicic: And they were poor. So they taught us to be thankful number one. Number two, don't forget the poor and needy. I know that there is no greater medicine for the heart than actually to try to fulfill the need that someone else has. And it instigates purpose. And it takes your focus of what you're going through and actually seeing, "Wow, even though I don't know what's going on, even though I'm getting bullied, even though I have no arms and legs, even though, still then God can use me to help someone else, another one of his children."<br />
<br />
Nick Vujicic: And when you know that you've got voices in your head beating you up with these lies, you know at the end of the day when you serve the Lord practical, tangible, helping someone else, it puts all those arguments at rest. No, God loves me and He loves the world and He can still use me even though I'm broken. And he can do beautiful things with your broken pieces if you give Him your broken pieces. And lastly Tim, after you're thankful and after you try to help somebody else. If you're still in that darkness and valley and feeling angry at God, first of all don't feel bad for what you feel. You can't change the way you feel and that's natural and that's the way that God's made us. But talk to somebody, talk to a counselor. Talk to somebody that is trained to talk. Just get those feelings out and talk with somebody. My parents always said, "Nick, we're here for you. You don't have to do this alone." So those are three things that pulled me through.<br />
<br />
Tim Clinton: I'm going through the book of Psalms again this year.<br />
<br />
Nick Vujicic: Nice.<br />
<br />
Tim Clinton: And the outpouring of emotion in the Psalms, it's revealing to me that it's okay to bring your brokenness. It's okay to cry out to God.&nbsp;<br />
<br />
Nick Vujicic: Amen.<br />
<br />
Tim Clinton: It's okay to say, "It's not the way it's supposed to be. But God would you speak into my life, help me to see you, help me to see you in me." You're listening to Doctor James Dobson's family talk. I'm doctor Tim Clinton filling in for Doctor James Dobson today. Our special in studio guest Nick Vujicic, world renowned speaker, a man with a message on a mission for Christ and he's making a huge difference. Nick, I want you to speak to our listeners just for a moment again about finding your way in the darkness. Whether it's financial trouble, broken relationships or maybe quote as you referenced in your bullying book, just being different. I'm just different. And a lot of people love to capitalize on that. How do you encourage them? Because in a lot of ways, you come in, you drop a positive message on them and they look at you and say, "I want that. I want that so bad. I need what God gave to Nick and I know these points matter and I'm trying. I try to make it happen. But it seems like everyday I'm getting knocked down." How do you keep going?<br />
<br />
Nick Vujicic: Look, when you look at the Bible, there are so many stories where first of all not any one really had a smooth and beautiful life. And God never promises a smooth life here on earth but He does promise that he's with us. And so the first thing that I want to remind all our listeners right now Tim is that God is with us. And whether you're driving in your car right now or you're at home and you're doing something. I just want you to know that you're not alone but that God is watching and He'll carry you when you can not walk. Look, I would love to just say formula and apply it and you know like a computer software get it done for our hearts and our minds. But it's just journey. God saying, "Do you trust me? Do you trust me even when you don't understand and you feel like you just can't hold on? I am here for you. Trust me."<br />
<br />
Nick Vujicic: And so, as we daily in a disciplinary act remind ourselves of the promises of good. We got Romans 8:28, "all things come together for the good for those who love Him who've been called according to his purposes." Philippians 4:13, "for I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me." There are some days Tim that I, as strong as I am in my faith, an evangelist going and talking to presidents about God. For real, there are times when Nick still has his ups and downs. And I think it was 2011 where I went through a very deep dark valley for about two or three months I share about it in my book unstoppable. And I had to find myself every hour quoting scripture out of my mouth. I didn't want to. My flesh even didn't feel like God was there. I didn't feel like there was power in these words but I knew there was by faith.&nbsp;<br />
<br />
Nick Vujicic: And when you walk by faith and not by sight and you instigate your flesh into faith by hearing of the Word out loud as you say, "I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me." Something supernatural happens. Faith comes by hearing of the Word. And if you can't read the Bible and you don't have the strength to pray for yourself, get people to come around you and pray for you because you won't be in that valley forever. Keep going, one day at a time. God is with you, he's going to pull you through. God is with you, he's going to pull you through. Hold on to God and God will hold onto you.&nbsp;<br />
<br />
Tim Clinton: And I guess where we miss it Nick, this is something where you got to suit up and show up everyday and do. It's the renewing of the heart and the mind. With that journey, then it makes sense to me that your ministry has taken some interesting turns. You have a real passion for ministering to those who have been trafficked, those who have been abused and more. Nick tell us what took you in that lane?<br />
<br />
Nick Vujicic: My parents always said, "Nick, be thankful." And we prayed our meal every time we ate but we always prayed for the poor people. And so at age 17, 18, I started expanding my financial literacy, went into real estate, bought my first home by 19. And then gave away $28000 cash to some orphans in South Africa. Against my parents will, I went to South Africa because it was very dangerous and I took my brother with me. And my dad said, "Nick, if my other son dies, it's going to be on your head." And so at age 19, to take your 17 year old brother with you to do what God's called you to do, it's takes a lot of courage. But when you take first of all smaller steps ... It's not that God's asking us all to be evangelists and get a microphone and start a talk show. We all got to understand that everyone's purpose and how God uses us and has built us is different and together we're stronger. And God gives me different gifts and our listeners different gifts but we just got to take those small steps first.<br />
<br />
Nick Vujicic: First of all, God knows your heart. He knows the desires of your heart and he knows that you want to somehow make an impact for the kingdom here on earth. You don't have to just figure it out. and at the same time Tim, so many people believe that their value as a child of God is directly related to what they do for God. That's totally wrong. I knew that God loved me because I'm His. He's made me and he loves me like a father loves his son. That's not why God loved me because I'm going to be a speaker and giving money away. No. But in that love, he gave me courage and faith to take small steps. Walk my dog down the street from my house as a teenager and talk to strangers about Jesus Christ. If I didn't do that, God would have not taken me around the world. And so when you're faithful with the little, God gives you more. But you're not faithful with the little to get more, you're faithful with the little because wow what an awesome opportunity to plant a side of love and hope and transformation and eternal life into someone's life.<br />
<br />
Nick Vujicic: When you value every minute of your day where in every stranger, the cashier, the girl's not looking you in the eye, take 30 seconds from your phone, put her in the eye and say, "You're looking good today. Can I pray for you?" And even if they say no, big deal. Then say, "I'm going to pray for you when I get in my car. Is that okay? What's your name?" And you have no idea what that does because you don't know where anyone's mind or heart is. You've got that mentality, I'm thankful, I'm a child of God and I'm going to do what I can do for God. I'm going to do my best and God will do the rest. So I would say that it started with small steps and then seeing miraculous windows open and doors open, you just run full speed ahead. Because I had no wife, because I had no children at the time, I could run.<br />
<br />
Nick Vujicic: And Tim, I was running on a plane every third day for about four years straight. Clocked up 3 million miles, 3000 stages. Was I tired? Yeah. Did I get discouraged? Yeah. Was I depressed some of those months? Yeah. Did I feel alone? Yeah. But man, what beautiful things God brought and how he made all that to come together for the good is just encouraging for me to even think about it.&nbsp;<br />
<br />
Nick Vujicic: And anyone listening right now, you're probably thinking, "How could any good come from this? How could any glory be revealed from my broken pieces?" And I want you to know, God, He's faithful and He can make anything come together for the good. Just trust Him, take one day at a time. Because when you don't get a miracle, you can still be a miracle for somebody else.<br />
<br />
Tim Clinton: We're fighting the clock a little bit Nick. But I want to go to John chapter nine. I've you seen you reference that a few times in your work. And when Jesus and the disciples come up to the gate, there's a blind man there. And they wanted to ask him a question, "Who sinned? This man or his parents." I've heard some say it's the dumbest question in scripture because he was blind from his birth. How could he have sinned to create that brokenness in his life.&nbsp;<br />
<br />
Tim Clinton: Nick, that passage there is important. It's significant to you but it has application for all of us.<br />
<br />
Nick Vujicic: Oh yeah. Very relevant.<br />
<br />
Tim Clinton: Yeah. Would you share that as we kind of close here and challenge us with the grace of God in our lives?<br />
<br />
Nick Vujicic: First of all, I love how apostle Paul says to God, "Take my thorn from my side." And God says, "No, my grace is sufficient." First of all, God is not punishing us. If anyone thinks that God's punishing you because you sinned, that's not right because the wage of sin is death. And so he's definitely not punishing you if you're alive. But what we do know is there are powers and principalities of darkness warring for your soul. And as you faithfully as a child of God toward him, with him, hand in hand, he will carry you and His grace is sufficient. It's a very relevant question because actually it proves people back then like people today believe in reincarnation and that you're being punished for your previous life. Someone's told me that too Tim.<br />
<br />
Tim Clinton: Interesting.<br />
<br />
Nick Vujicic: Yeah. I was 12 years old. And we know though that the way that God's created us and the world, we know that God loves us, He's with us, He's going to pull us through. And I'll never forget the day, here's a story to really bring this home. I met a little boy with no arms and legs just like me, his name is Daniel. And he was 19 months old and when I hugged his mom, she cried. She said, "You're the miracle we've been waiting for. Now I know that God has a plan for my son." And I remember when I was actually suicidal at age ten. I attempted suicide because of bullying. I thought to myself, "How cool would it be if I could just meet one person like me? Then I know I'm not alone." Well, God did better than that. Instead of giving me a limbless man in my life to inspire me, I've now become a limbless man in Daniel's life that not only does he know but I went to his school and talked about bullying and he became the coolest kid in school and never got bullied again.<br />
<br />
Nick Vujicic: And so that to me is better than having arms and legs miraculously. It's seeing how God can eventually in His time and in His way make all things beautiful and worthwhile. He will never let you go through pain in vain. He doesn't always make sense, He's mysterious but He is God and He is good.&nbsp;<br />
<br />
Tim Clinton: The final word Nick to everyone listening today.<br />
<br />
Nick Vujicic: Don't give up. Don't give up on your kids. God loves your kids more than you love your kids. They're running a million miles in the wrong direction, just pray for them. My children, we have rules in the home. My wife we have rules. If I bring my phone to the table, she puts my phone in the highest book shelf that I can not reach because when you're home, you're home. The greatest asset in your life and the greatest joy is knowing God. Second is to be family. Whatever you have left, be family. And thirdly, then love your neighbor as yourself.&nbsp;<br />
<br />
Nick Vujicic: There's a silent commandment really between number one and number two that summarizes all the commandments, it's be family. Your family is the greatest ministry. Those who prick you the most, those who you never thought would back stab you, pray for them because we know it's not against flesh and blood. It's about principalities and powers of darkness. And Tim, when you realize the truth, you don't even want your worst enemy to go hell because hell is real so I pray for my enemies. That God would open up their eyes and come to the truth, that they also would be free indeed. And that's when you're a rich man. You've got nothing against you that God can not do.<br />
<br />
Tim Clinton: Nick, thanks for being with us. His special book again, be the hands and feet: living out God's love for all of His children. A read that you have got to get and live out. Because when you do, when you find yourself in that way, it changes the game.<br />
<br />
Nick Vujicic: Amen.<br />
<br />
Tim Clinton: Nick, how do people get in touch with you? How can they learn more about your ministry, get the book and more?<br />
<br />
Nick Vujicic: We have a podcast on iTunes, life without limbs radio.<br />
<br />
Tim Clinton: That's exploding by the way.<br />
<br />
Nick Vujicic: It did well last week. We'll see what happens though. We're very excited trying to reach more people without putting Nick on a plane now with two boys and two girls as our children and so we're very excited. Lifewithoutlimbs.org is the best place to find me, to see where I'm speaking. God's given us an 8000 person tent that we'll pitching up in Oxnard southern California in 2018. We're really excited about that. And we just want America, the church to wake up and realize, "Hey, we are to be the hands and first." We should not be on the defensive mode right now about we can not connect to millennials. We got to get on the offense. We got to change our game and that's what this book is all about: be the hands and feet.<br />
<br />
Tim Clinton: The church needs to awaken and take it's rightful place. That means you and me showing up, letting God do his work in and through us.<br />
<br />
Nick Vujicic: Amen.<br />
<br />
Tim Clinton: Nick, thanks for joining us-<br />
<br />
Nick Vujicic: Love you Tim.<br />
<br />
Tim Clinton: Here on family talk. Love you too.<br />
<br />
Roger Marsh: And this is Roger Marsh sitting in for Dr. James Dobson today. You've been listening to a gripping interview doctor Tim Clinton did with world renowned evangelist and motivational speaker Nick Vujicic here on family talk. Now you can learn more about Nick's incredible ministry: Life Without Limbs by going to today's broadcast page at drjamesdobson.org. You can also find out more information about the books that Nick has written. You can also see if he's speaking in your area anytime soon. Again, go to drjamesdobson.org and click onto the broadcast tab.&nbsp;<br />
<br />
Thank you for joining us for today's edition of Dr. James Dobson's Family Talk.&nbsp;<br />
<br />
Announcer: This has been a presentation of the Dr. James Dobson Family Institute.<br />
<br />
Roger Marsh: And that concludes another one of our best of broadcasts from the year 2018 here on Dr. James Dobson's Family Talk. Now before we wrap up for the day, I want to remind you of the special matching grant that's in place right now. Here at the Dobson Family Institute, we rely on your generosity to continue fighting for families, and from now until the end of the year, every donation you make will be doubled! So, five dollars becomes ten, 50 dollars becomes 100, 1000 dollars becomes 2000, and so on. Now, this match is in place until we've reached our goal, so we urge you to take advantage of it right now. You can learn how you can partner with us today by visiting us online at drjamesdobson.org, or by calling 877-732-6825. I'm Roger Marsh. Thanks so much for listening, and be sure to join us again next time for another best of the best broadcast from 2018.<br />
<br />
Roger Marsh: Hi, this is Roger Marsh for Family Talk with some exciting news! We have put together 18 of Dr. Dobson's most favorite broadcasts of the past year, and we present them to you, together, on six audio CDs in the 2018 Family Talk Best of Broadcast collection. Join Dr. Dobson and many incredible guests, including Jentezen Franklin, Greg Laurie, Jessa and John Crisp, and more, in this compelling audio collection. You can get your CD set as our thank you for a suggested donation of fifty dollars or more in support of Family Talk. Join Dr. Dobson in serving families. Call 877-732-6825 or visit drjamesdobson.org.<br />
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          string(24536) "Roger Marsh: Hi, this is Roger Marsh. Thank you so much for listening to this special edition of Family Talk. I'm really glad you've joined us today, as we'll be bringing you another one of our best of broadcasts from 2018. Throughout December we're going to be highlighting some of our most listened to shows, along with some of Dr. Dobson's hand-picked favorites as well. So, sit back and relax and enjoy this one: one of our most popular programs from the past year.&nbsp;<br />
<br />
Announcer: Today on Family Talk.&nbsp;<br />
<br />
Roger Marsh: Hello, everyone. I'm Roger Marsh and you are listening to Dr. James Dobson's Family Talk. On today's program we are excited to bring you the second installment of an interview Dr. Dobson conducted with his good friend Dr. Richard Furman discussing the topic of fighting Alzheimer's and other forms of dementia.<br />
<br />
Dr. Richard Furman is a cardiac and thoracic surgeon with 30 years of medical experience. He's the author of five books, including Prescription For Life and Your Cholesterol Matters. Dr. Furman also helped found the World Medical Mission, which is the medical response arm of Samaritan's Purse, Franklin Graham's humanitarian organization.&nbsp;<br />
<br />
On today's broadcast Dr. Furman will continue to talk about his new book Defeating Dementia as he shares with Dr. Dobson the early signs and stages of Alzheimer's and why it is so important for us to take care of the bodies that God has blessed us with. Okay, let's dive in right now to part two of this conversation on today's edition of Dr. James Dobson's Family Talk.<br />
<br />
Dr. Dobson: Dr. Furman, I find your new, your latest book, Defeating Dementia: What You Can Do To Prevent Alzheimer's and Other Forms of Dementia, to be one of the most interesting books that's come along in a long time. If our listeners are interested at all in general health and especially avoiding the tragedy of dementia of any form why would we not want to know how to do that?<br />
<br />
The point you were making yesterday is that this is a disease that you can effect dramatically and even gave percentages from recent research that proves that. Repeat that for those that didn't hear the program yesterday.<br />
<br />
Dr. Furman: Well, there's a lot that we can be doing to defeat, slow, stop Alzheimer's. The numbers that I like to think about is that if you're in the 55 to 60 year old range, a third of the time, a third of the people in that age group have that Alzheimer protein in their brain without any symptoms. If you're 65 years old, 10% to 20% of Americans are going to have the symptoms of Alzheimer's.<br />
<br />
Dr. Dobson: Name it, that's beta ...<br />
<br />
Dr. Furman: Beta amyloid.&nbsp;<br />
<br />
Dr. Dobson: Amyloid.<br />
<br />
Dr. Furman: Beta amyloid is in your brain. That's the first stage is that first 20 years without symptoms. In that first age you don't know you have it, you don't know you're getting it. You used to have to do an autopsy to find out if you had Alzheimer's.&nbsp;<br />
<br />
Dr. Dobson: People are not willing to participate in that study, right?<br />
<br />
Dr. Furman: That's right. Then it got where ... Like when Mrs. Dell was diagnosed as probable Alzheimer's. There were just tests. You'd do mental testing. When the beta amyloid ... There were two proteins that diagnosed Alzheimer's. You may ought to learn those two. One is beta amyloid and the one is tall protein.&nbsp;<br />
<br />
The beta amyloid kills the cell. The tall protein is like a starfish that carries the message from the cell to the next cell. It gets entwined. It gets tangled up. That's what happens in that first 20 years in stage one. That is happening and we don't even know that it's happening.<br />
<br />
Then you go to stage two and that's where like with Mrs. Dell ...<br />
<br />
Dr. Dobson: That is an assumed name?<br />
<br />
Dr. Furman: That's a pseudonym.&nbsp;<br />
<br />
Dr. Dobson: That is an assumed name. It was actually your mother-in-law.<br />
<br />
Dr. Furman: It's my mother-in-law. That's what the book takes her progressing through Alzheimer's. Then it intertwines it with what's going on mentally. It talks about what we're talking about right now. Here Mrs. Dell goes into stage two. She can carry on life fairly independently. She could travel, she could go to the store. She sang in the church choir. She had quit singing solos.&nbsp;<br />
<br />
She was starting to forget things. I'd go down to visit them and her husband would say, "You know, I'm concerned. I heard her call somebody on the phone the other day and she had to ask who it was because she'd forgotten who she called until they answered." Then he said later she called and told someone, "I'll call you back in a little bit. I forgot why I called you." Things like that.&nbsp;<br />
<br />
That's stage two where all of that is going on. I got there one weekend. He said, "You've got to take her driver's license away from her." She went out to a friend's house. Drove all the way to Milledgeville, Georgia and back. Two hours. She wasn't sure how to get back home.<br />
<br />
I talked to her. She was adamant, "I can drive. I'm not going to quit driving. I'm going to continue like I'm doing." I called her doctor. I said, "When she comes in for a check-up next week write a prescription: 'no driving.'" We put it on the refrigerator.&nbsp;<br />
<br />
At that moment she went from stage two to stage three because she quit driving, she became dependent on someone. If we'd done PET scans, if we'd done brain studies you'd have seen more this beta amyloid protein building up in her brain. The hippocampus of the brain is the area that dwells with memory. That is the difference between stage two and stage three.<br />
<br />
Dr. Dobson: It's a big jump.<br />
<br />
Dr. Furman: It's a huge jump. You become dependent. You go from there to where, okay, now you're not taking care of yourself. Finally you get a walker and then a wheelchair. Then you become bedridden. Nobody understands bedridden until they see someone that they love being put in bed and you realize, "Hey, life is over."&nbsp;<br />
<br />
You're not taking them out to restaurants anymore. You have to put them in the living room because otherwise they're just going to be in the bedroom all the time. They're living in that bed for the rest of their lives. That's stage three and it's just a terrible stage. That's when you realize, "What can I do to help my odds of never getting Alzheimer's?"<br />
<br />
Dr. Dobson: Not a lot you can do to help the person who is in stage three.<br />
<br />
Dr. Furman: You can slow it down. They've got studies showing, doing the PET scans and the MRIs of the brain, if they do the exercise, if they eat properly, if they lose weight. Usually by the time they're at that age they've already lost the weight and all of that.<br />
<br />
The studies show, they go back to midlife, and see, were they overweight midlife? Were they obese in midlife? Did they exercise at midlife? What did they eat at midlife? That shows all through there that stage two is the big stage when you first start having symptoms. There are a lot of studies down on that. Measuring the PET scans to see how much of this beta amyloid is clogging the brain, the hippocampus of the brain, that these are preventable steps that can be made to make that beta amyloid not form.<br />
<br />
The Alzheimer's Association says half of Alzheimer's is preventable. There was an article in [inaudible 00:08:42] medical journal that said 87% of every one of Alzheimer's has at least one preventable factor that they can work with, whether it's the exercise, weight loss, or how they eat.&nbsp;<br />
<br />
There are many things we can be doing that will, even in stage two, will slow that down by these studies, these brain studies showing, okay, all of a sudden you realize that, "I need to exercise" or, "I can't eat that way anymore", "I'm going to lose weight". It shows that beta amyloid decrease in the deposit in that hippocampus.<br />
<br />
Dr. Dobson: You know, there's a spiritual dimension to this too because we are the temple of the Lord. He lives within us. 1 Corinthians 6: 19 and 20 says, "Do you not know your bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit? Who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own. You were bought at a price. Therefore, honor God with your bodies." That's rather dramatic, isn't it? Right to the point.&nbsp;<br />
<br />
Dr. Furman: That's great. That's what it's all about. That's the way we say thank you for what he's given us. Example, when I went to Nepal, earthquake, after they had the earthquake over there. The church there looked brand new. The reason is they had made it earthquake-proof and the pastor told them, "This is not your building. This is God's building. You're the caretaker."<br />
<br />
The same way with this. God's given us a great body. We're the caretakers of it. We need to do everything we can to thank him for what he's given us.<br />
<br />
Dr. Dobson: What do people say to you when you talk like this? Do you have any idea what percentage of them say, "I get it. I will do it"?<br />
<br />
Dr. Furman: There's two types of people. One, they would desire it ... Like I said earlier, they would desire it but they won't make the commitment, because the desire doesn't require action. But if they commit to it, I encourage them to make that a goal in their life. If they need to sit down and write down every meal you're going to eat, breakfast, lunch, dinner, write it down. Just the basics of it and set that as your goal. It gets where something that used to be a favorite will get where, once you read and study what it's doing ...<br />
<br />
Dr. Dobson: I never quite got to that stage.&nbsp;<br />
<br />
Dr. Furman: Well, I blame it on IQ but we won't go there. There are some people that will read something like this and realize, "Hey, I'm at that fork in the road. I better change my life right now." That's what I'm wanting this book: to become something, other than your heart attack, to make you change. There are things that you can do, paper after paper, showing about things you can do to decrease your chances of that beta amyloid piling up in your brain.<br />
<br />
Dr. Dobson: Well, let's kind of review a little bit one of your previous programs. A couple of them I think that we did in regard to how that diet really needs to change.&nbsp;<br />
<br />
You put the primary emphasis on saturated fat. There are other things obviously that you can do and nutrition is a complicated subject. You listed 10 things you must not eat. One of your books started with number one, two, and three.&nbsp;<br />
<br />
Dr. Furman: Yes.<br />
<br />
Dr. Dobson: Do you want to summarize that for folks? See, now what we're really doing is that we've done two programs where we've talked about nutrition as being one of the ways that you can help to reduce the danger of Alzheimer's or other forms of dementia. Let's focus primarily then on food and tell me what that really means.&nbsp;<br />
<br />
Dr. Furman: All right. That's very good because, like Mrs. Dell, she wouldn't have known what saturated fat even meant to her in her days. Let me give you a number to remember on the significance of what we're getting ready to discuss about where does that saturated fat lead you?&nbsp;<br />
<br />
There's a study that showed that the group ... You want to be in the right group. The group that ate the least amount of saturated fat, which is your red meat, this is what we're getting ready to go over, versus the 10% that ate the least amount ... The ones that ate the most had ... This is what I like. They didn't say double your chances or whatever they said. 2.2 times more likely to get Alzheimer's.&nbsp;<br />
<br />
Now just remember it's not twice as likely. It's 2.2 times. That's how exact they were on measuring this saturated fat that we're getting ready to mention in the bad picture. I'm going to give you a little good picture in a minute where this is leading us.&nbsp;<br />
<br />
I want to talk about the good fat. The fish. You should eat, most reports say, three to five fish a week if you can, which would help in defeating Alzheimer's. The study that stands out in my mind was a study that compared someone who ate one helping of fish a week versus a group that did not eat fish. The ones that ate the one fish a week had a 60% less likelihood of developing Alzheimer's.&nbsp;<br />
<br />
Dr. Dobson: That's phenomenal.&nbsp;<br />
<br />
Dr. Furman: There's two pictures that I hope you walk away with. That saturated fat picture, the 2.2 picture, picture a steak. On top of that steak is an egg with an egg yolk humped up. On top of that they put a piece of cheese and it breaks the yolk and the yolk runs down over the steak. You've got that picture.&nbsp;<br />
<br />
On the right hand corner is a glass of milk, which stands for cream. That's ice cream, cream-based soup, any kind of cream. That's 4% butter fat in that milk. That's equivalent to five strips of bacon if you're looking at the fat.<br />
<br />
Dr. Dobson: Dr. Furman, after I had my heart attack all those years ago, 28 years ago, I thought that I had to eliminate all fat. That's what I was told at the hospital because they didn't know then.<br />
<br />
Dr. Furman: Right.<br />
<br />
Dr. Dobson: They said, "Get all fat out of your diet." I tried to do it. I was eating about anywhere from two grams to five or six grams per day. That's hard to do. I would go to the grocery store and I would spend two hours reading labels. I would walk up and down trying to cut all that fat out.<br />
<br />
My cardiologist sent me to a lipid expert, a physician, Dr. Robert Eckel was his name. I went to see him. He's in Denver. I described to him what my diet was. He said, "Well, I'm going to make some changes. I'm going to put a lot of fat back into your life. I'm going to put 80 grams of fat into your diet but it is not going to be saturated fat. I want you to eliminate every bit of that."<br />
<br />
Dr. Furman: Right. That's great.<br />
<br />
Dr. Dobson: "Then we'll put polyunsaturated, monounsaturated fat in."&nbsp;<br />
<br />
Dr. Furman: Great advice. Great advice.<br />
<br />
Dr. Dobson: That freed me to eat a lot of things that I had not been eating.<br />
<br />
Dr. Furman: Yeah. Most people will put all fats together but there are bad fats and there are good fats. The other bad is the butter and anything fried. Most things are fried in animal fat so just get grilled, not fried.<br />
<br />
Anyway, that's the bad picture but what you were just saying, what your doctor put you on, was the good fats. You don't eliminate the bad fats and then substitute sugar. You eliminate the bad fats and then substitute the good fats. You eliminate the steak and start eating the fish.&nbsp;<br />
<br />
Just a quick little picture of the good fats. Think of a fish, salmon is the best, but think of fish. You look in the fisheye, its right eye, it's not an eyeball in there. It's a nut. The nut. Nuts have the good fats in it. You look in the other eye. That's not an eyeball either. You look at that and it's an olive. You use olive oil for your cooking. You open the mouth and there's avocados sitting there.&nbsp;<br />
<br />
Okay, but anyway, won't get into that detail. That's the good fats versus the bad fats. You want to eliminate. For Alzheimer's, don't eat any of the bad picture. Just go with the good picture.<br />
<br />
Dr. Dobson: Research shows that that makes a difference.&nbsp;<br />
<br />
Dr. Furman: It sure does. Just those two examples that we did about saturated fat, 2.2, and then 60% less. Just with the fish. The same way with the cholesterol. The higher the LDL cholesterol in your blood ...<br />
<br />
Dr. Dobson: That's the bad stuff.&nbsp;<br />
<br />
Dr. Furman: That's the bad. That's the lethal cholesterol. The higher that is when you get your cholesterol numbers back, the higher that LDL, that lethal LDL cholesterol is, they've done the studies that show there's more of the beta amyloid protein in your hippocampus in your brain.&nbsp;<br />
<br />
Dr. Dobson: Yeah. There's controversy over this. It's frustrating to me to hear ...<br />
<br />
Dr. Furman: I like controversies.&nbsp;<br />
<br />
Dr. Dobson: A lot of physicians saying, "Well, that was yesterday. We don't believe that anymore." They're actually recommending that people eat more saturated fat. Where are they getting that?<br />
<br />
Dr. Furman: A friend of mine argued that butter was the best thing he could eat. What you have to do is- I like the reality. If the saturated fat you eat, medically-speaking, anatomically-speaking increases the LDL level of the cholesterol in your blood. Saturated fat, the more LDL cholesterol.<br />
<br />
It's fact. Another fact is the more LDL cholesterol the worse your arteries are going to be. More heart attacks and more strokes. That's medically proven. What I point is look at the one medicine, the biggest sale medicine in the US, it's a cholesterol lowering drug that lowers your LDL. From a medical standpoint why in the world would that be the number one selling drug?&nbsp;<br />
<br />
Dr. Dobson: If it didn't do anything.&nbsp;<br />
<br />
Dr. Furman: If it is not doing anything. The FDA, if it's not doing it they're going to change things. I'd have to go by the FDA and the medical literature showing that, yes, the higher your LDL and the lower your HDL, the more of the beta amyloids in your brain. They've got a study on that. Any discussion, any argument, whatever, let's go to that study that they show that the higher your LDL cholesterol is in your blood, the more beta amyloids you have in your brain but your test on your test scores are lower.&nbsp;<br />
<br />
Dr. Dobson: Did you know my cardiologist and I had a conversation about this the other day? He said we really do not lose very many people to heart attacks today. It used to be just very common. I told you about my family and what they ate is disgusting to me. My grandmother used to fry bacon first and then put the bacon grease in the gravy and in the biscuits. Bacon grease, mind you.&nbsp;<br />
<br />
Dr. Furman: Yeah.<br />
<br />
Dr. Dobson: All of them died. They died early from coronary artery disease. There must be something to it. We made changes and those medications now have also had an effect. Fewer people are dying of heart attacks. Can you validate that?<br />
<br />
Dr. Furman: Okay. What I'll validate is there are still over half of Americans will die from a heart attack or a stroke from disease of their arteries.&nbsp;<br />
<br />
Dr. Dobson: Eventually.<br />
<br />
Dr. Furman: The one point you said just a minute ago, they died earlier back then when they were eating like that. Now we're living a little longer but that's still the highest death rate even over cancer or whatever.<br />
<br />
Dr. Dobson: There's a lot of work to be done yet.&nbsp;<br />
<br />
Dr. Furman: It's still the same work that we've got to work on but if we're talking about Alzheimer's remember that those cholesterol numbers directly affect the amount of beta amyloids that's in the brain.<br />
<br />
Dr. Dobson: Well, we're almost out of time. I want to summarize what we talked about. The name of the book is Defeating Dementia: What You Can Do To Prevent Alzheimer's and Other Forms of Dementia by Dr. Richard Furman, who is a cardiologist and physician and surgeon.&nbsp;<br />
<br />
This book is a must read because most people know, I don't know that they live by it but they know that saturated fat is dangerous for the heart and so on. They know that heart attacks are still related to nutrition.&nbsp;<br />
<br />
They don't know for the most part that nutrition is related to Alzheimer's. This is new territory. The exciting thing is that you can dramatically lower the incidence, or the danger, from Alzheimer's by avoiding the things that help to cause it.<br />
<br />
Dr. Furman: Exactly. These are just studies that show what you can do to get in the right group of people that has less Alzheimer's than the group that has more. We want to get in the right group for reading and by doing.<br />
<br />
Dr. Dobson: Before we go we really ought to talk about how people can get this book. I want to make sure it's available. Of course, you can get it from Amazon and many other places. You can also get it from your website, which is?<br />
<br />
Dr. Furman: RichardFurman.com<br />
<br />
Dr. Dobson: This is not something you studied in medical school?<br />
<br />
Dr. Furman: Oh no.<br />
<br />
Dr. Dobson: This is something that's come along recently.&nbsp;<br />
<br />
Dr. Furman: Yeah. All of this is going to be known I think by everybody several years down the road. I think this is just the wake-up.<br />
<br />
Dr. Dobson: For a lot of people it'll be too late.&nbsp;<br />
<br />
Dr. Furman: Sort of the wake-up call. In closing, I just want to remind you that it's never too late to start on the road to better health in defeating dementia.&nbsp;<br />
<br />
Dr. Dobson: You've done a great service to many, many people by what you've written here. I hope this book winds up number one on the best-seller list. It ought to be there because it can change lives. I appreciate you, Dr. Furman. I appreciate your friendship. You've been here to Family Talk three or four times. Maybe four or five now. As long as you're writing there's a place for you at that chair.<br />
<br />
Dr. Furman: Well, thanks for having me. Thank you.<br />
<br />
Roger Marsh: I'm Roger Marsh. You have been listening to Dr. James Dobson and Dr. Richard Furman talk about the ways to prevent and fight Alzheimer's on this edition of Family Talk.&nbsp;<br />
<br />
Learn more about Dr. Furman's book Defeating Dementia when you visit our broadcast page at DrJamesDobson.org. You can also learn more about Samaritan's Purse and the World Medical Mission while you're there as well. Go now to DrJamesDobson.org and then simply click on the broadcast page.<br />
<br />
Thanks so much for listening today. Make sure to be with us again next time for another edition of Dr. James Dobson's Family Talk.<br />
<br />
Announcer: This has been a presentation of the Dr. James Dobson Family Institute.&nbsp;<br />
<br />
Roger Marsh: And that concludes another one of our best of broadcasts from the year 2018 here on Dr. James Dobson's Family Talk. Now before we wrap up for the day, I want to remind you of the special matching grant that's in place right now. Here at the Dobson Family Institute, we rely on your generosity to continue fighting for families, and from now until the end of the year, every donation you make will be doubled! So, five dollars becomes ten, 50 dollars becomes 100, 1000 dollars becomes 2000, and so on. Now, this match is in place until we've reached our goal, so we urge you to take advantage of it right now. You can learn how you can partner with us today by visiting us online at drjamesdobson.org, or by calling 877-732-6825.<br />
<br />
Roger Marsh: Hi, this is Roger Marsh for Family Talk. Do you remember Dr. Dobson's touching interview with Jessa Crisp?<br />
<br />
Jessa Crisp: That kind of took me by surprise. She was standing in front of the door. I couldn't leave. And I was trafficked during the 2010 Winter Olympics in Vancouver, B.C.<br />
<br />
Roger Marsh: Or what about the powerful interview with Jentezen Franklin?<br />
<br />
Jentezen Franklin: I don't know who's listening to me today, but I just want to tell you that your children ... I don't care how deep they're in addiction and I don't care how messed up it is. Don't you ever stop praying.<br />
<br />
Roger Marsh: There were so many great Family Talk moments this year. It may be hard for you to pick your favorite program, but don't worry. We've done it for you. We have put together 18 of Dr. Dobson's most favorite broadcasts of the past year and present them to you together on six audio CDs in the 2018 Family Talk Best of Broadcast Collection. These entertaining and informative programs are sure to bless you and become a cherished part of your family resource library. This compelling CD set is our thank you for a suggested donation of $50 to support Family Talk. To join Dr. Dobson and Family Talk in serving families, call 877-732-6825, or visit drjamesdobson.org.<br />"
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