Well, hello everyone. Thanks for being with us. I'm James Dobson and our program today is going to be devoted to another ministry that I love and I'm very proud of. I'm not referring to JDFI or Family Talk where you're listening to this broadcast, I'm talking about Summit Ministries. It's also located in Colorado Springs and in two locations in other places. If you have followed my radio programs through the years, you know that I highly recommend Summit to parents of teens who need help in launching their kids and preparing them to deal with a confused and often godless world.
Dr. James Dobson: This ministry has been around for more than 60 years. I think it started in 1962. Jeff, is that right?
Dr. Jeff Myers: That's right.
Dr. James Dobson: Yeah. And we've been around talking about it almost that long. To help us discuss this, I have invited two guests, Dr. Jeff Myers, who is the president of Summit, and he is doing a job on behalf of, through the years, tens of thousands of kids who are now grown, most of them, and doing remarkable things for the Lord. Dr. Myers has written 14 books. He holds a PhD from the University of Denver, and I really love and respect this man. Dr. Jeff, welcome back to Family Talk.
Dr. Jeff Myers: Thank you, Dr. Dobson. It's so much fun to be back in the studio with you.
Dr. James Dobson: And we're going to talk about a very important thing today, your ministry. Give us kind of an overview. Give us mission statement of Summit Ministries.
Dr. Jeff Myers: Well, Summit Ministries equipped and supports the rising generation to embrace God's truth, to champion a biblical worldview. So we're looking for a generation that will bring all of their anxiety and depression to the Lord and say, "I am ready to stand for what is true and to do so with courage and with compassion, especially on my university campus."
Dr. James Dobson: You're worried about this generation of youngsters, aren't you?
Dr. Jeff Myers: Well, 75% of young adults today say they have no sense of purpose or sense of meaning in life. Half of them say they regularly struggle with anxiety and depression. I haven't seen these levels in all of the years that I've been working with young people.
Dr. James Dobson: You're seeing a change in the population that comes through your school.
Dr. Jeff Myers: What I'm seeing is, we've had an entire generation say, "We're going to move away from truth. We believe the truth is up to the individual. There's no such thing as truth, capital T." And now we know where that gets us. If there's no truth, then there's no grounding for reality, you're always lost. You're always confused. And we're seeing, in what we call Gen Z, the fruit of that right now.
Dr. James Dobson: I won't name him, but I had a retired president of a Christian college, one of the big universities, and he came in and sat down of my office. And I said, "In the 25 years that you were president, what changed?" And he said, "It's a whole new ballgame." He said, "When students first came here, they came in knowing the Bible, they knew what they believed. They'd had a foundation. They come in now having no understanding of the biblical truths at all." He said, "We've had to add additional programming just to get them up to speed on who Christ is and what the Scripture is all about." Have you seen a change like that?
Dr. Jeff Myers: The change we've seen is that the level of biblical literacy is as low as I could have imagined. George Barna's research says that only 4% of church attending self-identified Christian young people have a biblical worldview.
Dr. James Dobson: That breaks my heart. Four percent?
Dr. Jeff Myers: That's consistent with what you were saying. But the additional issue, and we talk about this with our students all the time is, just the idea that there even is truth that can be known. They don't believe that. This generation-
Dr. James Dobson: If you don't believe in absolute truth, then you don't believe Christ is divine. You don't believe God exists. You don't believe the Bible is true. If you don't believe in absolute truth, you don't believe in anything.
Dr. Jeff Myers: You don't even believe that reality is really real. Reality is something that's socially constructed through your individual experiences. And as hard as it is to believe, the vast majority of young adults in the United States of America hold to that belief, that truth is up to the individual rather than something that's out there and can be discovered through God's revelation and through reason.
Dr. James Dobson: That's what we're going to focus on today with regard to Summit Ministries. And also with us is my son, Ryan, Ryan Dobson, who's a graduate of Summit Ministries. He's spoken there a number of times and works there now. He holds a BA from Biola University in Southern California. He's an author, a public speaker, has his own podcast. And he, as I said, works at Summit Ministries. He's married to Laura. They have two children, Lincoln and Luci who happen to be my grandchildren. Tell us about your ministry, what you call Rebel Parenting.
Ryan Dobson: That's right.
Dr. James Dobson: What's the meaning of the title to start with?
Ryan Dobson: I think we saw there was kind of an absentee parent going on. And I think, Jeff, you've been talking about this. We have usurped our duty as parents. I can remember in Sunday school, in my church, we would have sword drills where they would say Psalm 118, and you'd have to turn to Psalm 118 as fast as you could. And you'd raise your hand and you'd get called on and you'd read the Scripture and you'd learn positional where things in the Bible were. You'd learn to get there faster and faster. My kids don't know what a sword drill is. And I just wonder, there's so many breakdowns. It seemed like parents weren't as involved in their kids. It was like, oh, school curriculum. Yes, I'm sure they're going to do a good job there. Oh, Sunday school, I'm sure they're going to teach my kids how to serve God.
Dr. James Dobson: That's their job.
Ryan Dobson: Right, it's their job. And with Rebel Parenting, you have your kids for a short window. And in that window, you get to be a parent. You don't have to, I mean, you could farm it out to a nanny if you want to, but I believe you get to be a parent for that short window and you should be involved in your child's life as much as humanly possible.
Dr. James Dobson: And that's where your emphasis is.
Ryan Dobson: You got it.
Dr. James Dobson: To get us started, let's go back to your first experience with Summit Ministries.
Ryan Dobson: Sure.
Dr. James Dobson: I had been concerned about the fact you were 16 years of age and your world was very, very narrow.
Ryan Dobson: It was.
Dr. James Dobson: And I wanted to broaden it. And I heard about Summit Ministries. This is way, way back. What year would that have been?
Ryan Dobson: 1986. You and mom approached me and you said, "Hey, we found this really great camp we want you to go to." And I said, "Awesome. What's it like?" And your direct words were, "Well, it's a lot like summer school, but you'll like it." And I said, "No way. I don't like regular school."
Dr. James Dobson: You said, "I've been sitting in classes all year. You want me to do what?"
Ryan Dobson: Yep. Yep, absolutely.
Dr. James Dobson: And we had quite a discussion over that. I decided you should go. You decided you didn't want to.
Ryan Dobson: I just said, "No, I'm not doing it." And you and mom relented, you said, okay. Next year comes around 1987. I was 17 years old. And you said, "Hey, Ryan, you know that camp, we want you to go to?" I remember thinking, "Yeah, the one I'm still not going to go to. I'm not going to summer school for camp."
Dr. James Dobson: Now wait a minute, let me tell this part of it. I said, "Well, look at it this way. You know that little white car that sits out in the driveway?"
Ryan Dobson: You said, "Ryan, I've got a deal for you." And I said, "Oh, what's the deal?" And you go, "You know that car you drive?" And I said, "Yes." And you said, "Well, if you go to camp, it'll still be here when you get back."
Dr. James Dobson: Yeah. And we came to terms.
Ryan Dobson: I guess. So we did.
Dr. James Dobson: The good news is that you went.
Ryan Dobson: I did.
Dr. James Dobson: Kicking and screaming, if you will.
Ryan Dobson: It's true.
Dr. James Dobson: And three nights later, you called me.
Ryan Dobson: Yeah.
Dr. James Dobson: And I know I remember this, right. You said, "This is the best thing that ever happened to me."
Ryan Dobson: It's true. For any parent or grandparent listening, I wasn't a bad kid. I wasn't heading in the wrong direction. I just didn't have, as George Barna says about kids today, I didn't have a purpose. I did not see a clear path forward. I didn't think I was going to make a big deal or a big difference in life. And that seemed okay until I went to Summit. And Dr. David Noebel and that staff said, "Oh no, no. God created you with a purpose and with a meaning and a mission. You are going to change the world." And I have never stopped believing it. I am 51 years old. I have been back to Summit every single year for 35 years. It made every single difference for the rest of my life.
Dr. James Dobson: What was, in a nutshell, that difference?
Ryan Dobson: Oh my goodness. There are so many things. Honestly, for me, it was the first time I had encountered a large group of adults that wanted me to ask questions. You don't get that as a child and you don't get it as a 17 year old, and you don't get as a smart 17 year old, where I have questions that are uncomfortable. I have questions that you may not have the answers to. And you don't get the feeling that adults want you to ask every question you have. Summit was different.
Dr. Jeff Myers: That was my experience as well, Ryan. I came as a student to Summit Ministries.
Dr. James Dobson: Did you really?
Dr. Jeff Myers: I was one of those kids who was graduating high school and thought, I think I'll just go ahead and graduate from church while I'm at it, because I can't find people who will take my questions seriously.
Ryan Dobson: Thank you.
Dr. Jeff Myers: Well, I went to Summit Ministries, I walked in the front door of that antique hotel in the little hippie town Manitou Springs. And I saw David Noebel there and I said, "I hope you have a lot of answers because I have lot of questions." I thought I was all that at age 17. What he said really surprised me.
Dr. James Dobson: What kind of questions, Jeff?
Dr. Jeff Myers: Well, I had questions like, "How do we know there is a God? How do we know that the world was created rather than that it evolved? If there is a God, how do you reconcile God's goodness with the fact that there is pain. Because if God's really all powerful, He could stop it, and if He doesn't stop it, that means He's not really good." I had basic questions like that. "Why would we say the Bible is the revealed word of God? What about the difference between Old Testament passages and New Testament passages?" I had so many questions, but David Noebel just said to me, "At Summit, we aren't afraid of questions." That's all I needed to hear. I know questions are difficult. I know answers are hard to come by, but I just needed a tribe of people who would say, "Bring your questions, it's okay."
Ryan Dobson: We aren't afraid of questions here at Summit. I'm telling you, there is not a teenager alive that doesn't want to hear that, because every one of them, they're saying, "I'm getting ready to leave my home. I'm going to be on my own. I'm going to live my life. I've got to figure out what do I believe, why do I believe it, does it flow in the same direction, do I have contradictory beliefs, will that cause me problems later in life?" And you've got an entire staff of people going, "Oh, awesome. I'm so glad you have that question. Let's talk about that." It is the most comforting thing as a teenager.
Dr. Jeff Myers: I think one thing a lot of young adults realize is that the days of convenient Christianity, as my pastor says, are over. They recognize that we are moving into a different world and they feel fear instinctively. So we're saying to them, "You have a purpose, there's meaning for your life, you are intended to be someone who makes a difference." And they're saying to us, "If that's true, and I desperately want it to be, I need to know that what I am standing for is actually true."
Dr. James Dobson: What David Noebel said to me, he was the founder of Summit Ministries. He said, "We are deeply concerned about the fact that these kids are coming out, most of them out of Christian homes and families, and they're going straight into colleges where everything they believe is going to be challenged. Everything is going to be ripped into, and we want to get that generation ready to deal with that." That's essentially the mission statement, isn't it?
Dr. Jeff Myers: It is still our mission.
Dr. James Dobson: To prepare these kids for a world that's hostile to Christianity.
Dr. Jeff Myers: That's right. And the hostility continues to grow. I know a lot of people, when we say that, say, oh, you're just exaggerating or you're trying to get more attention. But the truth is, more and more in the United States of America, and in many other countries, especially in the west, it's no longer taken for granted that you can even know what truth is. And once you get to that place, then all claims, Christianity included, are just opinions.
Ryan Dobson: Yes.
Dr. Jeff Myers: And there's no way to really know whether it's so, and if one opinion is somehow hurtful to another person, then it's wrong. By definition, it's wrong because somebody might feel offended by it. That's where we are. That's the difference. So, when our students are going off to campuses now, they're not saying, "I don't think the Bible is true." They're saying, "I don't think there is such a thing as truth." And that's where we have to start at Summit. There is such a thing as truth. God exists.
Dr. James Dobson: A college student who has the courage to stand up and say that he is a Christian is going to be attacked and put on the defensive and made to feel like a fool. You got to get them ready for that. So I want to say to the parents who are listening to us right now and to the grandparents, everybody's telling you ought to do something, you ought to buy something. You ought to read something, you ought to do something, but I'm telling you, this is one that you ought to take seriously because the world has changed. And it is hostile to the Christian faith. And if you've got kids that age, I call them kids, some of them are early twenties, aren't they? The age range is about 16 to 20 what?
Dr. Jeff Myers: Say 22.
Dr. James Dobson: They're in that range and you can influence them, get them to this program. You will not be disappointed. And in fact, most of them will absolutely love it like Ryan.
Dr. Jeff Myers: We had George Barna, the veteran social researcher, help us study our students from this last summer. So I mentioned that 4% of young Christians in America have a biblical worldview. He found that by the time they left two weeks at Summit Ministries, 86% had a biblical worldview.
Dr. James Dobson: Unbelievable.
Dr. Jeff Myers: And we did another study of our graduates later on because we thought, well, of course, everybody's excited after camp, but we found that years out, they were telling us only 40% of them felt able to defend their faith when they came into the program, 90% felt able when they left the program. They're tell us this years later.
Dr. James Dobson: Ryan, that program later changed your life, didn't it? I mean, it set the stage for everything that has occurred since then.
Ryan Dobson: That's right. And we're talking to parents right now. So one of my other jobs, I run a podcast with my wife. We do it every week. We talk about marriage and parenting, but I call the parents who send their children to Summit. So, between August of last year and June of this year, I'm calling 1,100 parents. But in the last year, calling over a thousand parents, not one parent has said they regret sending their child to Summit. Not one. That's a huge deal. Not one says they regret it. But when I talk to them on the phone, I hear relief in their voices. I have a 15-year old, he's getting ready to leave home in a few years, he's going to go to college. And I've started getting that feeling, that anxious feeling I didn't do enough. I didn't do enough. I didn't do enough at the faith. I didn't teach him enough things. And that fear invades your parenting. So now I just want to tell him things all the time, but I'm thankful because he's going to go to Summit.
And I talk to these parents whose kids are getting ready to leave home. And they're like, "Oh Ryan," you get that, "Oh, I'm so glad I sent my child. I didn't waste any money. And they came home and now I feel, oh, they have the foundation. The things I hoped they would say that would let me know they understand Jesus, they understand eternity, they understand that Christian worldview. They understand these things. They're saying them to me, Ryan. Oh, I'm so glad." That's the greatest feeling, telling a parent to send their kid to Summit and then talking to them later and going, oh, it was awesome. It was awesome.
Dr. Jeff Myers: And you know what parents love so much about it is, their kids sometimes come home and say, did you know?
Ryan Dobson: Ah, yes.
Dr. Jeff Myers: And they repeat back to them the things that they've been telling them all of their lives.
Ryan Dobson: Yeah.
Dr. Jeff Myers: But they're just some things that you need to hear from somebody else. There needs to be someone else in your child's life who also says that.
Dr. James Dobson: When Ryan came home from that first trip, he was 17 and he was full up to here. He came home with answers. Ryan, I've never seen anything like it.
Ryan Dobson: I'll tell you what else it gave me, Dad. If you think back to the political upheaval of the late seventies and early eighties, we had Jimmy Carter in office, inflation was at all-time high. We're talking about gas prices right now during the Russian Ukrainian conflict, we could buy gas on odd and even days based on your license plate. They were two, three hour long lines-
Dr. James Dobson: Sat in line.
Ryan Dobson: That's right. And then Reagan came in and there was all these people talking politics and they sounded smart. The people on the left sounded like they were smart, but everything they said differed from what you and mom believed. And there was an internal conflict I wasn't talking about, and it was, I need to know what I believe, but my goodness, if I find truth and my parents are wrong, this will be devastating to my relationship. I was so afraid of finding out you were wrong. And I went to Summit, and not only did I find out answers to foundational questions, "Why am I here, where do I go when I die? Does Jesus love me? Why does He love me? Why does He think I have a purpose for being on this earth?" But I got my relationship with you and mom back because I knew you had been telling me the truth the whole time. That's a big deal.
Dr. James Dobson: That's rather gratifying for a parent.
Ryan Dobson: In that same study, Dr. Jeff's quoting from, Barna asks teens, "Who is the number one, most influential person in your life?" And their answer is, my parents. Children answer, my parents. They roll their eyes at you. They act like teenagers can, and they are watching you.
Dr. James Dobson: Jeff, at the time that Ryan came, the ministry was in this dilapidated dormitory and the kids loved it. When David Noebel was running things, I tried to raise money for him to build a new building. And the kids yelled and screamed and said, "No, don't do it." But you have modernized it now.
Dr. Jeff Myers: We have this beautiful antique hotel in Manitou Springs, Colorado. It's the little town tucked in right at the foot of Pikes Peak. And we have updated it. In fact, we've won several awards from the Historical Society were the best renovation. So we tried to maintain the thing about it, it started in 1880s.
Ryan Dobson: My goodness.
Dr. Jeff Myers: It's a great story. In fact, our architect for the program was the great grandson of the man who built the building. And when he heard that young people were coming to faith in Christ at that hotel, he said, "I want to be your architect." Well, he's a famous architect. And he helped us rebuild that building and prepare it for the next generation. But we have more locations now, Dr. Dobson. We also use the campus of Covenant College in Georgia. We use the campus of Asbury University in Wilmore, Kentucky. And then we customize programs for groups all over the world.
Dr. James Dobson: How many students a year do you have?
Dr. Jeff Myers: Well, this last year with our curriculum courses and in-person, we had 66,000, More than 66,000 students.
Dr. James Dobson: That thrills me. I can't tell you.
Ryan Dobson: Dr. Jeff, tell my dad about the custom made programs you're doing for churches and groups that want, especially adults, that want to learn the things their kids are coming back with, that they're like, "I can't go to Colorado for two weeks." And you're designing programs specifically for them.
Dr. Jeff Myers: Well, we started by developing a program called Base Camp for adults, just a half-day program. One that would cover key issues from a biblical worldview. So we've done them on gender identity, on pro-life, on a number of key issues. And then we said, "Well, look, what program do you want? We'll come to you because we have 75 instructors, all of whom love Jesus and are the top authors and speakers in their field." I was just on the phone with one of our speakers who was at a major university tonight. And he called and said, "Hey, just want to check you in with you on something because I'm getting ready to speak to all these university students." They're in the arena. So we did a program for a service academy cadets, 150 of them for the whole weekend. We've done programs for churches, week-long things, curriculum courses, all sorts of things.
We just decided that, look, what we're talking about with the biblical worldview is so important. We want you to come and study with us for two weeks, that we know that's life changing, but we also want to help your church, your local Christian school, your homeschool co-op, and other groups so that you can train young people right where you are.
Ryan Dobson: That's right. Dr. Jeff and the Summit instructors are going where they're needed. They're not saying, "Hey, we've got a great location. Just come on and see us." They're saying, "If you've got a need, we're going to come to you. We'll teach you where you're at." I mean, that is dedication to a cause. It's why I believe in Dr. Jeff and Summit.
Dr. James Dobson: Well, I can't believe how fast this program has gone by. And there's so much more to talk about here, more of the details. We haven't even told people how to register and who to call and what to do. Ryan, that is your expertise.
Ryan Dobson: That's right.
Dr. James Dobson: Share with people what they need to know. We really only got a couple of minutes and we'll pick it up next time.
Ryan Dobson: That's right. We've got a lot more to talk about. But for those parents and grandparents saying, I got to send my child or grandchild to Summit. You can go to summit.org. S-U-M-M-I-T.org. If you sign your child up before March 31st, you get $200 off the tuition.
Dr. James Dobson: That's for the coming summer?
Ryan Dobson: Correct. That's for this summer. If you use the code Rebel22, they'll give you another $100 off the summer session. So it's $300 off before March 31st, if you use the code Rebel22. You can sign your kids up.
Dr. James Dobson: If they didn't catch that, they can get it online.
Ryan Dobson: Yep.
Ryan Dobson: All this information can be found at drjamesdobson.org/broadcast.
Dr. James Dobson: Now, we are out of time. Dr. Jeff Myers and Ryan Dobson, it's a pleasure to have you here. There's so much more than we need to talk about. There's a lot of detail here. I urge people to come back and be with us before, because we want to describe this program more fully. There's a lot of stuff here for your kids and your family, and you will never be the same for having sent them. So thank you for being with us, we'll pick up right here next time.
Ryan Dobson: Thanks, Dad.
Dr. Jeff Myers: Thanks Dr. Dobson. This is rising generation that has enormous potential.
Dr. James Dobson: Is it fulfilling to you, sir?
Dr. Jeff Myers: This is the best job I've ever had.
Dr. James Dobson: Winning people to Christ, young people particularly. Is there nothing better than that, right?
Dr. Jeff Myers: Nothing better in life.
Dr. James Dobson: Let's talk about it next time.
Roger Marsh: You've been listening to Dr. James Dobson's Family Talk and part one of Dr. Dobson's recent in conversation with his son, Ryan Dobson and Dr. Jeff Myers, the president of Summit Ministries. I'm Roger Marsh. You know, Summit Ministries has been teaching and equipping young adults with a biblical worldview for 60 years and countless lives have been impacted and changed as a result of their work. To hear any part of the program that you might have missed today, visit drjamesdobson.org/broadcast. That's drjamesdobson.org/broadcast, or give us a call day or night at (877) 732-6825. We have team members available 24/7 to take your call and to answer your questions about the JDFI and Family Talk. That number again is (877) 732-6825. Dr. Jeff Myers and Ryan Dobson will be joining Dr. Dobson again tomorrow to talk about how young men and women can be equipped with truth and a biblical worldview. You will not want to miss this conversation. Thanks so much for your support and for listen to Dr. James Dobson's Family Talk.
Announcer: This has been a presentation of the Dr. James Dobson Family Institute.
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